paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

Awesome thread. My set arrived from Steve B today and I quickly modified my grinder and went to work. Will take some time to get completely used to the setup, but so far it is amazing. Not the last sharpening system I'll buy, but an good one to have around. Made two kitchen knives scary sharp.

One question I have is that my buffer wheel is really black even though I wipe the blade off after using the grit wheel. Is it normal and I just need to put more rouge on each time or is the color a non issue?

the buffing wheel getting black is normal and nothing to worry about. just apply some rouge every few knives or when the wheel looks like it needs it. just a pass across and back is usually all i do so the wheel is sort of white looking when running but not gobbed on. if you get too much on dont worry since it will come off as you use the wheel. just watch out for flying globs of rouge :eek:

Lol, so far the only thing that I figure I need to worry about is flying rouge. The setup is quite amazing and so simple too. Makes me really want to get a strop for on the go and a decent sized single grit hone.

I see you sharpen knives professionally. I assume you use something else for recurves. wonder if you could modify the wheel so that they were rounded off. I know they make the smaller ones for carving tools, though something larger would be good.

Thanks for the help/info btw!

its a waste to modify the larger wheels so just get the right ones. check out mikes website.

Will check the other wheels out. I assume there is a rounded edge wheel for recurves, not sure how else you'd sharpen one.

Forgot to ask, what is Mike's site? Not sure who you were referencing.

riz, send me an email rje196021@gmail.com

Two questions, I put too make wax on the wheel. What is the best way to remove it and what angle on the paper wheel. Same as the other disc.

thanks

if you put too much wax on dont worry about it. try to rub it into the grit with your finger but any excess wont hurt a thing. read my wheel tips thread for more info http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=608864

Hi Richardj

Do I need to clean/resurface the slotted buffing wheel? I have been using the wheels for a while now and have not attempted to clean that wheel. Any thoughts or suggestions would help me!

I skimmed through this thread and did not see a post that answered my question.

Thanks,

Doug

you will need to smooth out the slotted wheel every now and then depending on how many knives you sharpen. where the slots are the wheel develops humps between them and you get a washboard feel to the wheel when buffing. to fix this i get a piece of 50 grit or coarser abrasive and a flat board. i hold the abrasive on the board and position the board slightly under the wheel. slowly move the abrasive into the wheel so it just starts to make contact and shift the board side to side ever so slightly to flatten the wheel and remove the humps. these humps dont really bother me and it wont change how well the wheel works but it can be annoying when it gets really bad. if you only do a few knives every now and then you wont have this problem but someone like me who does a lot of knives it doesnt take long for the wheel to get this way. i find that thick heavy knives tend to create the humps more than lightweight knives.

Excellent. Thank you.

Does it matter what speed the grinder is running at? I think mine runs about 3500rpm .

What is the lifespan of the paper wheels?

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Originally Posted by Goose350

What is the lifespan of the paper wheels?

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I've heard of well over 15 years for the Razor Edge wheels. Mine are true and really hog off some steel and get a nice edge on knives with anything better than pot metal steel real quick.

Mike

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Originally Posted by gunmike1

I've heard of well over 15 years for the Razor Edge wheels. Mine are true and really hog off some steel and get a nice edge on knives with anything better than pot metal steel real quick.

Mike

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very awesome:thumbup:

i have a set going on 18 years old. i run my wheels on a 1725 rpm 1/2 hp motor with an arbor attached to the shaft. anything less will bog down. i really dont like running my wheels fast either. i have been sharpening with a 1725 rpm motor ever since i started.

I sent you a email Richard

if anyone contacts me by email please put down who you go by on the forum. it makes it a lot easier to know who you are. thanks.

who is going to try and do some fundraisers with their wheels?

Total newbie to sharpening - choosing between waterstones and paper.

Do knives get concave sections in them ALONG the edge, be it from excessive use in one region or un-even sharpening?

My concern is cutting through veges, meat, etc on a cutting board, and the concave sections not completely slicing through.

I'm thinking waterstones might be better for cutting on boards, paper better for cutting in air - is it an issue?

the area where the wheel contacts the blade is so narrow that the edge will look flat. i sharpen kitchen knives all the time for friends where i live and for my own and they cut great. the edge is more or less a v edge which you control the angle you want to put on the knife. if you hold the blade high on the wheel (around the 12:00 position) the way i sharpen you end up with a thin and extremely sharp edge. hold it low (below the 1:00 position or lower) you get a more durable edge but the lower you go the less likely it is to become shaving sharp. i dont understand what you mean by cutting in air.

Also here's highly accurate pic illustrating what Richard was talking about earlier - that the wheel diameter is so large compared to the edge depth that it essentially presents a flat surface.

http://www.peroogle.com/public/paperwheel.gif

good picture :thumbup:. if you sharpened a knife with a thick edge you would be able to see a slight concave or hollow ground edge if you magnify it well enough. edges like this need thinned first before sharpening or convexed instead of having a v edge put on the blade. jontyc, where are you from?

Hi - from Australia. Appreciate the knowledge I've learnt here btw.

I can't find the wheels here so have emailed Mike to see if he has a retailer here. Other than that Woodcraft seems to be the only one who delivers internationally without a minimum order. Awaiting a shipping price now... :eek:

What I was talking about earlier was concavities ALONG the blade, like this:

http://www.peroogle.com/public/scallop.jpg

who attempted to sharpen that blade :eek:. that looks like someone had the blade in line on a grinding wheel. you need to check out my sharpening vids i have showing the wheels in use. if you want a set of wheels i can see if i can get someone to ship a set to you through the usps which would be cheaper than ups. i was just talking to a member who is having a set shipped to him by a friend. maybe i can see if he would help you out and have 2 sets shipped and you work out the payment details with him.

lol - I'm glad to report that knife above doesn't exist - 'twas a photoshop job so that I could exaggerate what I'm talking about. Would this sort of effect happen (albeit to a smaller degree) when sharpening on such a narrow wheel, or even using the same section of the knife to cut with over time?

I could imagine the extra width of a waterstone would limit this happening somewhat. Also could imagine the waterstone not reaching this section would let the rest of the blade catch up over time. I just would hate chopping veges or meat for a part of the blade not to come through to the board.

As far obtaining the wheels goes, if the other member is in Australia and would like to share postage with me, great. Or if there are any others from Oz reading who also like to give them a try, please post. But unless the postage from Woodcraft is ridiculous, it wouldn't be worth mucking around.

you are in control of the blade and if you start with a flat blade you should end up with a flat blade unless you dont have a smooth even pull when drawing the blade across the grit wheel. if the edge isnt flat to start with then you wont end up with a flat edge. i tried contacting the member but no luck yet. i'll let you know when i do.

keep an eye on your abrasive wheel grit by cleaning a small area with a fine steel wire brush or a stiff toothbrush. with the wax applied its hard to tell when the grit is wearing off. to clean up a used wheel i get a good flat board and hold a piece of coarse grit cloth on the board and with the board slightly under the wheel i slowly move the board and cloth into the wheel to clean off the wheel. you can see the wheel clean up but go at it lightly and dont just push the board into the wheel if its not perfectly round or you can make it worse.

Just received my wheels about a week ago. Bought the 8" x 1.25". Only used on about 4 knives so far. All German steel. Seem to having a problem with the burr. Can't seem to knock it off. I end up using my ceramic hone.
Seem real strange. I am using barely any pressure and the burr won't go. I seem to be chasing it from side to side.

try more pressure when buffing and make sure you're not too far back on the blade. what position are you holding your knives at? i hold mine around the 1:00 position and the wheel is rotating to me. are you sharpening the same way or holding the blade in front with the edge down?

I have the wheels rotating away from me. I sharpen on the top between 12 and 11. I am behind the wheel, not in front. I read that is how you do it. I am not comfortable enough with the set up to try doing it that way.
I am using very little pressure.

some knives wont give up the burr very easily so a little more pressure is required to remove the burr. the reason i sharpen the way i do is so i can see whats happening. you can see the burr come off and you can see if you're holding the blade too high compared to the angle the edge is ground at. if you're higher on the buffing wheel than the angle you ground the edge at you're not going to get the burr off because you're not directly on the edge. i tried calling you too just a few minutes ago.

I will give it another try. I was wondering if I was on the shoulder or not. I have to admit what little I have done I am impressed with the edges. Edge pro gives a great bevel only takes a lot longer.
Will try again this evening to see if I can get the whole bevel this time.

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Originally Posted by richard j

some knives wont give up the burr very easily so a little more pressure is required to remove the burr. the reason i sharpen the way i do is so i can see whats happening. you can see the burr come off and you can see if you're holding the blade too high compared to the angle the edge is ground at. if you're higher on the buffing wheel than the angle you ground the edge at you're not going to get the burr off because you're not directly on the edge. i tried calling you too just a few minutes ago.

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Richard, thanks for the help. I just need more practice. Sorry missed your call. I had a couple of other questions, maybe we can talk on the weekend if you are free, Thanks

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Originally Posted by Mocaw

Richard, thanks for the help. I just need more practice. Sorry missed your call. I had a couple of other questions, maybe we can talk on the weekend if you are free, Thanks

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Try working with the wheel rotating towards you and work on the top of the wheel with the burr facing you. Work at the 1 O'clock position to start and adjust if necessary. If you want to work with the wheel rotating away from you, you should be on the wheel at about the 9 O'clock position so that you can physically see the burr on the edge.
You will be able to see if you are too far back on the shoulder of the blade or not. You will be able to see the burr working off the edge on the compound wheel using this technique. If you can not see the burr while you are honing the edge on the compound wheel, it is hit or miss as to what you are achieving.
Try whatever you can to talk to Richard about his technique, I learned from him first hand, and it has to be seen to be believed how effective and easy his technique is.

Chuck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckinohio

Try working with the wheel rotating towards you and work on the top of the wheel with the burr facing you. Work at the 1 O'clock position to start and adjust if necessary. If you want to work with the wheel rotating away from you, you should be on the wheel at about the 9 O'clock position so that you can physically see the burr on the edge.
You will be able to see if you are too far back on the shoulder of the blade or not. You will be able to see the burr working off the edge on the compound wheel using this technique. If you can not see the burr while you are honing the edge on the compound wheel, it is hit or miss as to what you are achieving.
Try whatever you can to talk to Richard about his technique, I learned from him first hand, and it has to be seen to be believed how effective and easy his technique is.

Chuck

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Thanks for the advice. I understand about trying to see the burr. Will try to speak with Richard also.

chucks on his way over so we can work on a few knives. i'll see if i can get him to record another video of how i work up a burr. mocaw, i'll give you a call when he gets here so be by the phone.

Not in right now. Will be home this weekend

Richard,
Do you suggest applying more pressure on the buffing wheel if the metal is harder? Should I apply more pressure to S30V as compared to say AUS8?

Also,
As I progress, should I lighten the force behind the strokes or is that futile?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckinohio

Try working with the wheel rotating towards you and work on the top of the wheel with the burr facing you. Work at the 1 O'clock position to start and adjust if necessary. If you want to work with the wheel rotating away from you, you should be on the wheel at about the 9 O'clock position so that you can physically see the burr on the edge.
You will be able to see if you are too far back on the shoulder of the blade or not. You will be able to see the burr working off the edge on the compound wheel using this technique. If you can not see the burr while you are honing the edge on the compound wheel, it is hit or miss as to what you are achieving.
Try whatever you can to talk to Richard about his technique, I learned from him first hand, and it has to be seen to be believed how effective and easy his technique is.

Chuck

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Tried this method (wheel turns toward me and sharpen between 12 and 1) over the weekend. It actually was much easier to find the bevel in relation to the wheel. My bevels are still not very even yet. I guess that will come with more practice.
Richard's advice an slightly more pressure with the polish wheels seemed to help with burr problem.
Thanks for the help.