After waiting this long, a bit longer isn't a deal breaker. I'm still very much so looking forward to this knife... Hopefully sooner than later... I'll probaly EDC this knife a bit, but mostly it is going to be a hiking/adventure knife.
About the Striders... great knives, and I would own one if I could get over the ridiculously huge sharpening choil- on a knife that already has one of the worst cutting surface to handle ratios ever. Seriously... what the hell were they thinking while designing their folders? Gee, lets make a nine inch knife with a 3 inch cutting surface and just for the hell of it, lets take an extra 1/4" chunk out of the edge so people can better hook stuff they are cutting rather than cut it. Does anyone else agree with this?
Yeah. But this really isn't the place to discuss Striders. ;)
0560/0561- ELMAX steel, heavily MACHINED Titanium, KVT, excellent CUSTOMER SERVICE, superb WARRANTY.
Looks like Strider may want to drop their prices or step their game up;)
Yes I have owned many Striders and ZT's even the 0560. Have another one in transit to me:D
true true, sorry :-P
I'll make up for it by saying how happy I am with Kershaw and ZT for not including similar design flaws in their knives! :)
There you go. :)
With all due respect to Strider and Chris Reeve Knives, it's easy to get their products right now because they both are companies with a fairly narrow product line. They have been making SnG/SMF's and Sebenzas for years.
The ZT 0560 is a brand new product, and we have several brands and a much wider product line. Give it a little time and it will be easier to pick one up for MSRP or less.
I suppose I am biased, but I would argue that ZT knives are not in a different league than a Strider or a Chris Reeve. What are we really basing this on? Great design? Got it. Precision machining? Got it. High end / exotic steels and materials? Got it. Robust build? Got it. High quality / tight tolerances? Got it. Great warrantee service? Got it.
The biggest difference I see is the price tag. Are we really basing what "league" a product is in by price?
In my very humble opinion, the only reason the companies mentioned can charge that much more is because their following is willing to pay it. We could price our knives higher, but we choose not to. I don't think that makes a ZT a lesser product.
Lets be real here, Striders have a higher price tag and do they spend the extra time and money to machine out the titanium in their handles, NO. Do they have a state of the art pivot system(KVT), NO. Is their fit and finish hit or miss, YES. Do they have good customer service, NO, their CS is pretty much non existent.
So the real question being is ZT offering a hell of a deal at the $260,$350-$400 price of the 0560/0561 or is Strider making a killing at the $400-$550 price tag on the SnG's/SmF's?
You decide, I sold all my Strider's if that tells you anything;)
And I've never bought any. But I do have a Sebenza or two. ;)
Even though I agree with everything you've said about Striders, look at the prices they command on the secondary market. If you buy an 0560/0561 today for $400, put it up and sell it a year from now, do you really think you'll get $400 for it? That's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not attempting to compare the intrinsic value of a Strider versus an 0560/0561. I'm simply trying to compare their resale values down the road. And when I do that, I'd say the advantage goes to Strider.
One thing to keep in mind is that we're comparing apples to oranges here. It's difficult to make an argument that production knives from a thriving company are going to remain scarce in the long run. And scarcity is part of what keeps prices up on limited production and custom knives.
Let's also remember that ZT knives will always be somewhat limited in production.
For the record, I don't want this thread to turn into a pissing match about who makes a better knife, and my comments probably aren't helping. So let's all try to get back on topic here! :)
YMMV but I would be really hard pressed to spend my money on another CRK until I see something new. ZT is doing some tremendous things lately and I can only hope that it will put some pressure on other companies to get their thinking caps on:)
This is my last comment on the subject, I promise;)
As enthusiasts there are a few ways to look at this genre of knives. There is the big industry picture, and the individualistic picture. While neither are wrong or bad, I just feel to give the flip side of story when the individualistic point of view is posted.
When making market value comparisons all facts have to be presented so to give a clear and accurate picture. As you say bld522, the market value with CRK's and Striders vs. ZT's needs to be considered. Not everyone uses these knives for their intended purposes, and secondary value is important. In this case, Striders and CRK's should hold their value better.
The counter to the above which puts ZT on a completely different planet than these other two manufacturers are the extreme differences with the programs, discounts, and volume that are available from each brand.
One could say that the initial price you pay on a ZT is outrageously inexpensive in comparison due to our ability to have all that the other two brands have with regards to materials, spec's, and yes even tolerances. The kicker is that dealers and even distributors can actually make real money on the product. There are no small margin deals on ZT as with the others. There's full margin to be had, and even wholesalers have the ability to profit on the line. This is a very uncommon occurrence with knives in this industry genre.
This is important for a variety of reasons, firstly it assists dealers and distributors with financial support that aids in their future. This channel of product hasn't ever had much to offer when it come to that type of support.
Availability additionally increases as the number of outlets are greatly enhanced. It's important to us that consumers, lot's of consumers, have the ability to purchase this type product somewhat regularly. They don't just have to be bought on the secondary market.
Could we go direct? Have minimal dealer margins available? Yes and yes, but we're looking at this genre of knives in a different way, a bigger way. Right or wrong it's important to us that we push more volume and discounts than we normally see with this type knife in it's price point, and not max out profit for ourselves.
In the end distributors, dealers, and ultimately you the consumer can financially benefit from the experience of the brand Zero Tolerance.
Whoa! Nice post, Thomas. I knew I was barely scratching the surface when I said comparing ZT knives to Striders and CRKs is like comparing apples to oranges. There's so much more here than meets the eye and you fleshed it out beautifully. Thanks for taking the time to do that. :thumbup:
Can not agree with you more jimmer_5!
I would trade my small 21 for a 0560 if I had the chance.
I want my 0561!!!!! sorry, I had to get that off my chest.