I need help identifying this E.M. Dickinson Sheffield knife

[BootsWilliamson]

I would like to know about the manufacturing date and additional history surrounding this knife

[Cougar Allen]

A great deal of the blade has been sharpened away. It was a bowie-style hunter at one time. The handle is well worn too.

[BootsWilliamson]

I bought it off of a mountain man in northern New Mexico. He had it in his family for years

[Pipeman]

The lack of an ENGLAND mark normally indicates pre 1891.I stand to be corrected but I believe anything made for export had to be marked with ENGLAND after 1891.

Best regards

Robin

[BootsWilliamson]

On the back, "Invicta" is carved into the blade

[Ishrub]

Tweedale's Directory of Shieffield Cutlery Manufacturers (p140) lists it:
Owner Edwin Murray Dickinson, born Shieffield 1849 died 21 Oct 1930 aged 80. He started the business in the early 1880's in Murray Works, Cambridge St. They made pen, pocket, and sportsman's knives, Bowies and daggers, and trade knives for butchers and farriers. The Murray Works often relocated, in 1896 it was in Rockingham St. then Arundel st in 1910. It became a Ltd Liability Co in 1897. The Co. ceased trading in the late 1930's and trademarks were INVICTA, EL DORADO and THE MURRAY and a picture of a screw. The trademarks were aquired by Needham, Veall & Tyzack (qv) at Eye Witness Works in Milton st.

[HoosierQ]

I love those old "cowboy bowies". I have a late 1960's era "Original Bowie Knife" by Sabre, made in Japan. Got it as a kid. I am going to make something of it by putting a cross guard and some stag scales on it. Won't be a Sheffield or a Green River but those Sabre blades were made pretty well and take a good edge. In it's original form it had hollow plastic faux jigged bone "scales" and a cross guard. I wish I still had the guard to put back on it.

Any way, that is a great knife and the "mountain man from New Mexico" really adds something to it I think. Don't be tempted to "fix it". I'd sharpen it, make sure it has a usable sheath and put 'er in the rotation.

[BootsWilliamson]

I wouldn't mind sharpening it, but it has been sharpened to the point that you can't really make out what the original shape looked like

[HoosierQ]

It will almost certainly have looked more or less like this. This one has seen quite a bit of wear and tear too...but not like the one you've got there.

[BootsWilliamson]

I'm not thinking of selling mine, but what do you think it's worth?

[HoosierQ]

Boots

We registered users are not allowed to solicit value on this forum.

Q

[BootsWilliamson]

Oh alright. One more question. Uhm I got mixed answers, so what year was this knife most likely made?

[HoosierQ]

Well I think prior to 1891 was the best guess anybody really had...supported by the tarriff laws and the requirement to place the country of origin on the poduct. You will note that the similar "old knife" I showed there does have "England" on it. Doesn't guarantee anything but it would tend to point to a post 1891 date for that one...where the lack of same tends to point to prior to 1891 on yours. "Sheffield" made 10s of millions of units of probably 10s if not 100s of thousands of patterns. The identification of them is not a pinpoint type of thing.

You have to be careful. One of the keys to this sort of thing is "condition is no indication of age". Yes, if the owners only ever used a soft Arkansas stone to sharpen that knife, then it might have taken 120 years to take off that much metal. If they used a grinder or a file and a heavy hand, it would look like that after 2 or 3 years probably. Same goes for rust and patina. The guy lived in New Mexico...low humidity...might take 120 years to accumulate that much pitting and patina. Same knife in Louisiana or Florida, with a little careless handling...again, just take a couple of years.

[Pipeman]

Hi Boots
Assuming your knife is pre 1891 then it was likely made at Murray works as Ishrub pointed out. "He started the business in the early 1880's in Murray Works, Cambridge St. They made pen, pocket, and sportsman's knives". They may have called it a bowie but more likely a "sportsmans knife". So your knife was likely made between the early 1880s and 1891. If you do an Ebay search for Bowie knives you'll likely find at least a few similar knives. If you go to completed sales you'll see what they go for.

Regards

Robin

[BootsWilliamson]

Thank you all for the information. It has been very helpful!

[DJD]

Pre-1891--assuming that the tang stamp hasn't been fiddled with. A lot of knives have the word "England" scrubbed off to make them appear older than they are. Yours has a somewhat suspicious blank area. Not that it matters much in terms of value on a knife in this condition.

DD

[BootsWilliamson]

It is barely visible, but England is there

[HoosierQ]

Ah. So probably post 1891 and just used hard. Man I say sharpen it, fix up a nice leather sheath for it..."western style" and you got yourself either a cool conversation piece or a cool user. I would have jumped on that thing in a heartbeat at a yardsale of something. I NEVER see stuff like that. I did once see a mini Cold Steel Tanto and a SAK (the latter I bought and gave to my boy) but "real" knives...never.

[BootsWilliamson]

How would I fashion a sheath for it exactly? It came with a sheath that didn't exactly fit the knife, but I would like to buy a newer one

[DJD]

Unfortunately, if you intend to make the knife a user, the loss of steel through decades of sharpening will have changed the angle of the grind enough that putting a good edge on your knife will be difficult if not impossible. And to add insult to injury--that design of knife was a mediocre performer at best, even when it was new. They were styled to look good on your belt, rather than to work well as a tool. I think it's prime value now is as a historical relic.

DD