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Thread: Waterstones or Diamond?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Southeastern KY
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    307

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    Okay guys, I think I'll go with waterstones. Which ones do you all recommend? I hear great things about Chosera and Shapton, as well as more budget-friendly King and Bester/Beston, though I have also seen claims that they are not as effective on hard or carbide-rich steel. Sigma Power (or Select II) ceramic stones are widely praised as well, but some deride ceramics for losing that great feel.

    I don't mind investing in stones, but I certainly don't want to waste money on stones I'll have to replace with better ones in a few months. This is a big decision, so any recommendations?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Upstate, NY
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    3,547
    Quote Originally Posted by cm_bushman View Post
    Thank you, Heavyhanded, this makes a compelling case for waterstones. I am equally unskilled using any abrasive stone right now, so I am not avere to investing time into either waterstones or diamonds. The bold part must be that extra quality of edge I hear so much about, and it really has me thinking waterstones are the way to go. Cutting time and maintenance still has me worried though. I know that waterstones allow for higher pressure, and a slurry helps with polishing and cutting, but how will sharpening time really compare with diamond at similar grit? Will it be an extra minute or two, or will I be at it twice as long? Flattening is also a concern. I will have to invest in a good flattening method, and I worry it will wear down and decrease the life of the stone. How long will a waterstone usually last with daily use?

    Check out some of Murray Carters videos.
    If you use the entire stone surface, overall wear will be very even and you'll only loose a small amount of stone when lapping it flat. If you fail to do this and concentrate wear in a few areas you'll have to lap more often and will loose quite a bit more of the useable material. I took a diamond sawsall blade and cut a 1/4" off the end of all my waterstones (Kings and Nortons) and use it to whip up polishing mud, and to give a quick scrub when I finish - keeps the surface reasonably flat indefinitely.

    I'm not sure about using higher pressure on these stones, I'd keep it light.

    Edit to add:
    Grind time on most steels will be very comparable, you'll only notice a difference on the high alloy and high carbide stuff. Even higher RC carbon steels will grind pretty quickly.

    For another idea of how to use all the stone's surface you might check out some of my Washboard videos (through the link in my signature). Is not a waterstone, but in use I work it the exact same way, substitute a splash of water for every time I stop to unload the paper with an eraser - I actually think of it as being something of a ghetto waterstone in terms of application and how it 'feels'.

    Martin
    Last edited by HeavyHanded; 02-28-2014 at 06:41 AM.
    -^-^-^-^-CLEAN UP YOUR EDGE!-^-^-^-^-
    with the Washboard Freehand Sharpening System

    http://www.washboardsharpening.com/

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...9#post13480019

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Chapel hill N.C.
    Posts
    2,570
    I just bought shapton pro waterstones a couple weeks ago. Very happy with the 320-1000 but the 5000 seems to clog a bit. I got everthing I needed from CKTG lap per, holder 3 stones, balsa wood & leather strop for a excellent price.
    ISEK#15

    The basis of your life is Freedom; the purpose of your life is Joy.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    SB, CA
    Posts
    1,406
    Oh no, not about MC use the mogul stone surface. I think, you are better off just flatten the stone, use it up (take decades for most people), buy new one if needed.

    The Washboard isn't ghetto at all - (sorry Martin!) - similar to waterstone it gives very good tactile feedback and plus a bonus of mechanical feedback. Mechanically help you to zero in getting consistent stroke & sharp result. I found WB 8x2 surface is not optimal for me. I prefer a 8x3 or 10x3.5 with a heavy base plate (metal or poly) + rubber feet WB.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyHanded View Post
    Check out some of Murray Carters videos.
    If you use the entire stone surface, overall wear will be very even and you'll only loose a small amount of stone when lapping it flat. If you fail to do this and concentrate wear in a few areas you'll have to lap more often and will loose quite a bit more of the useable material. I took a diamond sawsall blade and cut a 1/4" off the end of all my waterstones (Kings and Nortons) and use it to whip up polishing mud, and to give a quick scrub when I finish - keeps the surface reasonably flat indefinitely.

    I'm not sure about using higher pressure on these stones, I'd keep it light.

    Edit to add:
    Grind time on most steels will be very comparable, you'll only notice a difference on the high alloy and high carbide stuff. Even higher RC carbon steels will grind pretty quickly.

    For another idea of how to use all the stone's surface you might check out some of my Washboard videos (through the link in my signature). Is not a waterstone, but in use I work it the exact same way, substitute a splash of water for every time I stop to unload the paper with an eraser - I actually think of it as being something of a ghetto waterstone in terms of application and how it 'feels'.

    Martin
    OP - Here is a good (reasonable budget) sharpening set, I would be happy with (for now - heheh).
    1. DMT 8x3 X + diafold E/EE
    2. Shapton glass 220+500+1K+6K
    3. Any good 1K & 5K waterstone but not as hard as shapton glass - yes total duplicate with SG
    4. 0.25um diamond/cbn paste
    5. 8x3 HeavyHanded's WashBoard plate - future ware

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    somewhere on the coast
    Posts
    2,842
    I'd say just get a $40 king stone and practice, then upgrade as you go.

    I started with a 1000 grit stone for years and managed to get scary sharp edges from just that stone. As my skills progressed I sought after more stones.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    3,547
    Quote Originally Posted by bluntcut View Post
    Oh no, not about MC use the mogul stone surface. I think, you are better off just flatten the stone, use it up (take decades for most people), buy new one if needed.

    The Washboard isn't ghetto at all - (sorry Martin!) - similar to waterstone it gives very good tactile feedback and plus a bonus of mechanical feedback. Mechanically help you to zero in getting consistent stroke & sharp result. I found WB 8x2 surface is not optimal for me. I prefer a 8x3 or 10x3.5 with a heavy base plate (metal or poly) + rubber feet WB.

    OP - Here is a good (reasonable budget) sharpening set, I would be happy with (for now - heheh).
    1. DMT 8x3 X + diafold E/EE
    2. Shapton glass 220+500+1K+6K
    3. Any good 1K & 5K waterstone but not as hard as shapton glass - yes total duplicate with SG
    4. 0.25um diamond/cbn paste
    5. 8x3 HeavyHanded's WashBoard plate - future ware

    I am honored to have made the short list! Though now I have to find a new simple description other than 'ghetto waterstone' - that won't be easy...

    Have made a few 10"x3", they are impressive looking units, that's a lot of Washboard surface. I had thought about making some rubberized feet that double as tacks (or vise versa) to stick into the bottom of the base, but never got around to it, might have to revisit that idea.

    Martin
    -^-^-^-^-CLEAN UP YOUR EDGE!-^-^-^-^-
    with the Washboard Freehand Sharpening System

    http://www.washboardsharpening.com/

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...9#post13480019

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Auburn Wa
    Posts
    7
    I like diamond stones for repairing the edge and resetting the bevel (350/1k). Beyond that, refining and polishing the edge, I prefer waterstones: Norton 4K/8K. Then with my straight razors finish with a microbevel with my 12K Thuringian stone and CrO paste on a balsa paddle strop.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Manhattan a.k.a. N.Y.C. ½ mile from where the twin towers once lived. R.I.P.
    Posts
    948
    Had my Techno sharpened at the ECCKS show Fri. by Clay Allison, creator and owner of the 'Wicked Edge' sharpening systems.
    One of, if not the best sharpening systems commercially available.
    Three words: "Wicked Sick Sharp".

    Clay Allison @ ECCKS.
    (Thanks Clay!)



    Last edited by chambelona59; 03-01-2014 at 09:30 PM.

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