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Thread: 4.1 thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaco View Post
    I don't do social media and can't get an answer via email. Anyone know how long before I might expect to see my 4.1 I ordered about 9 months ago?
    I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point. SURVIVE! has gotten away from giving estimates on dates which I think is very wise. I have a 4.1 preorder as well and my unofficial guess is no sooner than early 2017. I'm not expecting mine before then and I wouldn't be surprised if it was later.
    SURVIVOR! #3
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaco View Post
    I don't do social media and can't get an answer via email. Anyone know how long before I might expect to see my 4.1 I ordered about 9 months ago?
    I'm not on social media either. What I can tell you is that the previous poster and I are waiting on preorder 4.7s, he's in 15 months, and I'm in 13 months.
    SwampRat Brotherhood * S!K #10 * Carothers Performance Knives

  3. #43
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    I've tried to be patient, but am tending toward frustration again. Reading that (13 and 15) months… I'll just crawl back into my hole now and be quiet. Good grief.
    "If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson

    "Be smooth. If you can't be smooth, be high." - Anon
    {I used to be rockspyder (iktomi).}

  4. #44
    The flared scales of the new spec my fit the hand better in eronomics as well has the hump on the top but I purely enjoy the design cues of the old spec. Handle length is also shorter by half an inch in the old spec. I like the profile better.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockspyder View Post
    I've tried to be patient, but am tending toward frustration again. Reading that (13 and 15) months… I'll just crawl back into my hole now and be quiet. Good grief.
    Your confusion and frustration is being felt by more and more loyal customers. I hope the first half of July has been put to good use. There must be something pretty important going on if they're still not able to focus on preorders.
    SURVIVOR! #3
    BECKERHEAD #530

  6. #46
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    This frustration is very valid and there's no need for any loyal Survive! fans, AKA Survivors! to apologize or to feel guilty for expressing their discontent with the very slow pace of the fulfillments (12+ months). A healthy community is one where frustrations are addressed in a civilized manner and are heeded to. I would like to see Survive! make more definitive comments like, "it is our earnest goal to complete ALL 4.7 preorders by such and such date in Sept 2016". No more moving targets and distractions. I don't fault those who are now beginning to express their frustrations and I'm not talking about waiting for 4-5 weeks for a F-2nd order fulfillment. This latter is par for the course so if you are in that camp, just wait and appreciate the fact that you will be getting your F-2nd in a much shorter time as compared to the folks who preordered a F-1st.

  7. #47
    Casino, last year they were providing projected production dates and could not achieve them.
    The schedule slippage lead to a great deal of frustration so they don't specify dates any longer.
    Of course the not knowing is frustrating as well, but since I don't have to answer their phone I won't second guess their decisions.
    Some of the delays were the normal teething processes for a new shop but I also get the impression that Guy can't stop improving the product.
    The man does not seem to know the meaning of the phrase "good enough" and the quest for perfection is taking time.
    All the suggestions in the world aren't going to change Guy.
    Remember that Guy's values are what created all the interest in Survive in the first place.

  8. #48
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    Fancier: I completely understand and respect you side of the debate but in this dynamic if we assume and are resigned to the fact that "Guy = Constan"t then some other variables need to be addressed and changed in that equation (operating a viable business) or things will simply NOT equate!

    Assuming the above to be an absolute, i.e, Guy = C, the other two other variables namely the total number of orders and also the price per unit needed to be addressed more correctly to balance the numbers up. How was this possible? Well, the Co will still have to purchase high quality of steel and outsource work to high quality vendors (since they do not machine or manufacture any knives in their workshop) in order to have a platform to refine a high quality blade exacting to their own high standards. Quality always costs higher so the way to address that is either to order in larger quantities in order to gain a better pricing from the outsourced vendors or to order in lower quantities and charge the end user (customer) for that pricing differential. It is clear to me that Guy has chosen the former which is fine as it is his business, his operation and his company. I also understand that not everyone thinks like me to be fine with the latter scenario if I get my orders in my hands with less excruciating wait period.

    It is precisely because of the argument which I have presented before you that I think Survive! should no longer use vague and uncertain language and to their credit this is the current verbiage on this site:

    "We do not have guaranteed delivery dates for preordered knives. Once a model starts production it typically takes 4-6 months for all of the materials to be produced and another 1-2 months to get orders finished, sharpened, and built."

    What I was originally referring to were these goals and targets which I think most people will be just fine with and that includes me. If someone is not content with this, they ought to be refunded within 3 business days of putting in for a refund request. Email messages need to be responded to within 24 hours and phones need to be answered as this is no rinky-dink operation and it is a serious viable business and going concern. I have been PM'd privately by some very ardent and trusted Survivors! who privately have voiced concerns. Although I am a nobody and a johnny-come-lately in the grand scheme of things, I just hope that the powers-that-be start paying attention to what is discussed in here in a civilized and none inflammatory manner. Quite honestly, some were expecting a lot more than a trickle of a few order fulfillment in July after the lull in June because of personal and family issues.

    Thanks for listening.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fancier View Post
    Casino, last year they were providing projected production dates and could not achieve them.
    The schedule slippage lead to a great deal of frustration so they don't specify dates any longer.
    Of course the not knowing is frustrating as well, but since I don't have to answer their phone I won't second guess their decisions.
    Some of the delays were the normal teething processes for a new shop but I also get the impression that Guy can't stop improving the product.
    The man does not seem to know the meaning of the phrase "good enough" and the quest for perfection is taking time.
    All the suggestions in the world aren't going to change Guy.
    Remember that Guy's values are what created all the interest in Survive in the first place.
    Finally, the knife industry has a producer that absolutely will not let a product out the door that is not the very best design and manufacture that can be attained (unless it is sold as a second in the pit)... but can't stop improving the design long enough to actually get the product out the door. At least that is what that sounds like.
    "If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson

    "Be smooth. If you can't be smooth, be high." - Anon
    {I used to be rockspyder (iktomi).}

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by rockspyder View Post
    Finally, the knife industry has a producer that absolutely will not let a product out the door that is not the very best design and manufacture that can be attained (unless it is sold as a second in the pit)... but can't stop improving the design long enough to actually get the product out the door. At least that is what that sounds like.
    Indeed. Guy appears to have reached the point where he simply wants to do things his way.
    No business partners, no bank financing, no marketing consultants. Just the best knives he can make at a price that he feels is fair.
    It is an oddly compelling concept in this globalized world.

  11. #51
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    Call me a cynic but I detected sarcasm in RS's post

  12. #52
    I hope they can ship maybe 200-300 knives like real quick before every thread turns into "My knife took so long it's obsolete" threads. A lot of negative sentiment is beginning to swirl under the surface.

    Looking at the order numbers that are just shipping now placed over 15 months ago then seeing there are 4000 orders, out of that probably 2000+ knives to be made before some of my recent orders.....


    ...... is completely destroying my optimism.
    WTB or WTTF:
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  13. #53
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    Such pessimism floating around.

    I'm in the same boat and have a longer wait for both my pre orders. Others have much longer then me. All i can say is check out the secondary market grab another blade and waste some time. We all read the same disclaimer. I won't say that I don't want my order right now, but if it effects quality or the end product then I think I'll wait. I have sympathy for the argument I just don't see the good it does complaining. Guy does things a certain way and that's why folks buy his knives. The time frames just plain sucks, but while you wait grab another knife and take some time in the woods to relax and put you mind at more of an ease.


    I hope this thread doesn't become another 4.7 thread that has to be closed and made new again.

  14. #54
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    The pessimism will dissipate quickly for most when they receive their preorder fulfillment notices. Heck, I'm not expecting any one of my own preorders till after Fall of 2017 at the earliest (seriously, I'm not) but I would feel more warm and fuzzy when this 4.7 road block is finally lifted and cleared by reading about folks, their newly received 4.7s and the big grins on their faces

    P.S. apologies in advance for consistently bringing up the 4.7 since this is the 4.1 thread!

  15. #55
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    I feel your guys pain on the wait. My strategy has been to go back to my folders. I really dont like any fixed blades better than my S!Ks so I see no reason to purchase any. Lately I have been giving the Spydies a good look. It keeps me occupied.
    Last edited by Riz!; 07-16-2016 at 10:16 AM.
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  16. #56
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    ^^^^^Good advice. I need something else in this interim, I'm dying over here!
    SURVIVOR! #3
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  17. #57
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    I'm with you Riz. I have not carried or purchased a folder in years. But yesterday KSF had closeout prices on Three Sisters Forge Gorgon and Lion Steel S2 titanium I just couldn't not resist. I think it is time to dust off my folders and start carrying them again. I started carrying fixed blades only as they are far more capable and stronger than any folder. But folders provide a lot of knife in a compact easy to carry package. So my edc will include one of each for the foreseeable future. It is time to dust off the SNG, SMF, Sebenza 25, Lion Steel S1 and other ZT and assorted folders.

  18. #58
    Just thought I'd pop by to share and celebrate the anniversary of placing my order for a 4.1 with the forums!

    My way of dealing with the long delay is that I have had to bury that it's on order in my mind and one day when it finally shows I'll be a pleasant surprise.
    I was expecting it to take a while to arrive but the anniversary of my order makes me start to second guess if I should have just ordered say a Bark River Bravo1 instead, it might not be as perfect as I'm hoping the 4.1 will be but its' looking like it's going to be my second summer without the quality fixed blade I promised myself back in last July.

    If someone asked me should they order a Survive knife now, I'd be very reluctant to tell them to do so, Simply because they'd probably have to buy something else to use while they wait anyway.

    T.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatbloketimbo View Post
    Just thought I'd pop by to share and celebrate the anniversary of placing my order for a 4.1 with the forums!

    My way of dealing with the long delay is that I have had to bury that it's on order in my mind and one day when it finally shows I'll be a pleasant surprise.
    I was expecting it to take a while to arrive but the anniversary of my order makes me start to second guess if I should have just ordered say a Bark River Bravo1 instead, it might not be as perfect as I'm hoping the 4.1 will be but its' looking like it's going to be my second summer without the quality fixed blade I promised myself back in last July.

    If someone asked me should they order a Survive knife now, I'd be very reluctant to tell them to do so, Simply because they'd probably have to buy something else to use while they wait anyway.

    T.
    I do understand your frustration. I own several BRKs, and I'm here to tell you that your 4.1 will far exceed anything out of the BRK shop for functionality. But for those on a budget and in need of a knife to use, S! in the current state is probably not the way to go. BRK makes very good knives, and you would be better served by a Bravo 1 than by nothing in a 4 inch fixed blade category for the past year.

    Under the current circumstances, S! Is not the knife maker for everyone. But it will not be too much longer before the 4.1s will be shipping out the door. If you need something to tie you over, pick up something used off the exchange at a reasonable price. When you compare it to the 4.1 once received, I'm confident that you will agree that the wait was worth it.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by McVeyMac View Post
    I do understand your frustration. I own several BRKs, and I'm here to tell you that your 4.1 will far exceed anything out of the BRK shop for functionality. But for those on a budget and in need of a knife to use, S! in the current state is probably not the way to go. BRK makes very good knives, and you would be better served by a Bravo 1 than by nothing in a 4 inch fixed blade category for the past year.

    Under the current circumstances, S! Is not the knife maker for everyone. But it will not be too much longer before the 4.1s will be shipping out the door. If you need something to tie you over, pick up something used off the exchange at a reasonable price. When you compare it to the 4.1 once received, I'm confident that you will agree that the wait was worth it.
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I guess I came across as more negative than meant to.

    You make some good points and I think it's easy for those who collect knives to say just use something else while you wait.
    I don't have a lot of money to spend on knives these days, like so many of us after buying my fair share of cheap/crappy knives I've learnt it's better to save up and buy quality that will last, hence ordering the 4.1.
    Current camping/outdoor tasks are handled with a Mora and a BK9, so I'm covered but at the same time there is definitely need for a quality 4" blade.

    BTW just for fun I went back and compiled the list of 4.1 notes from the monthly updates, so we can all remind ourselves that despite the delays there is a steady march of progress.

    8-15- We also have GSO-4.1 steel. Cutting is scheduled for late August.
    9-15- Next up for the water jet cutting will be the GSO-4.1
    10-15- Water jet cutting will start on the GSO-4.1 this month.
    11-15- There were a lot of GSO-4.1 orders placed in the last few days of the preordering being open. We need more steel for this run and will start cutting blades as soon as those extra sheets arrive.
    12-15- The GSO-4.1 run is getting cut out and machined to size.
    1-16- GSO-4.1 blanks are going to production grinding later this month.
    2-16- The GSO-4.1 blanks are heading to production grinding.
    3-16- GSO-4.1 blanks are at production grinding.
    4-16- GSO-4.1 blades will be moving to heat treat this month.
    5-16- GSO-4.1 blades are finishing up at heat treating.
    6-16- GSO-4.1 blades are mostly done at heat treat. Sheaths are being pressed!
    7-16- GSO-4.1 blades are all at the SURVIVE! workshop. Other materials are being completed over the next few weeks.

    So apart from Nov-15 it's been pretty solid forward progress, which has oddly cheered me up a little.

    T.
    Last edited by Thatbloketimbo; 07-16-2016 at 11:34 AM.

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