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Thread: Introducing Tiger Claw Sharpening

  1. #21
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    Last edited by Panthera tigris; 07-31-2016 at 03:06 PM.

  2. #22
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    Second PM sent!

  3. #23
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    A little shop talk for those of you interested in strops. We are using Bark River Knives black compound and Veritas/Lee Valley Green compound.

    Black is courser and has a particle size that averages 7 microns/micrometers. This is roughly equivalent to a 1000 grit Edge Pro stone or a 3k - 5k grit traditional waterstone. Black compound is great for maintaining a toothy edge suitable for fieldwork.

    Green compound is chromium and aluminum oxide with an average particle size of 0.5 micron/micrometers. This is about 3X higher than the Edge Pro 7k tape and roughly equivalent to 60k grit. This green compound will restore a shaving sharp edge on a knife that is properly aligned, and is excellent for creating a mirror-like polish on a blade. It does very little cutting but will polish quickly.

    In the future, we will also offer bare premium leather strops with no compound that would be appropriate for a straight razor.
    Last edited by Panthera tigris; 07-22-2016 at 05:40 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleT View Post
    A little shop talk for those of you interested in strops. We are using Bark River Knives black compound and Veritas/Lee Valley Green compound.

    Black is courser and has a particle size that averages 7 microns/micrometers. This is roughly equivalent to a 400 grit Edge Pro stone or a 3k - 5k grit traditional waterstone. Black compound is great for maintaining a toothy edge suitable for fieldwork.

    Green compound is chromium and aluminum oxide with an average particle size of 0.5 micron/micrometers. This is about 3X higher than the Edge Pro 7k tape and roughly equivalent to 60k grit. This green compound will restore a shaving sharp edge on a knife that is properly aligned, and is excellent for creating a mirror-like polish on a blade. It does very little cutting but will polish quickly.

    In the future, we will also offer bare premium leather strops with no compound that would be appropriate for a straight razor.
    Just curious but are there any benefits of the Veritas/Lee Valley Green over the Bark River Green and how do they differ? Maybe you just already had that particular green on-hand.

    Thanks

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior108
    Just curious but are there any benefits of the Veritas/Lee Valley Green over the Bark River Green and how do they differ? Maybe you just already had that particular green on-hand.

    Thanks
    Bark River green is advertised at 6000 grit, which is equivalent to an average particle size of 4 microns or between the 600/1k Edge Pro stones.

    The Bark River green compound will cut more than the Veritas compound, but it is less useful for polishing/mirror finishing due to differences in average particle size (4 vs. 0.5).

    I do have Bark River green on hand as well if you were interested in a piece using that particular compound.

  6. #26
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    That's interesting that you use a Edge Pro for sharpening convex blades. I didn't think it was appropriate to use a consistent angle sharpener for convex edges since it can change the blade profile. But I guess like you said it's taking it from a true convex to a compound double bevel at the edge.

    It would be cool to see a video of you sharpening a convex blade but maybe that would give away your trade secrets Lol! I like to sharpen my own knives but I've never been good with freehand sharpening v grinds on a stone or touching up convex edges on sand paper. The consistent angle sharpeners for me are so much easier to get a razors edge. It would be cool to see how you do a convex knife. I've only ever done V-grinds.

    Good luck with your business venture!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD Blades
    That's interesting that you use a Edge Pro for sharpening convex blades. I didn't think it was appropriate to use a consistent angle sharpener for convex edges since it can change the blade profile. But I guess like you said it's taking it from a true convex to a compound double bevel at the edge.

    It would be cool to see a video of you sharpening a convex blade but maybe that would give away your trade secrets Lol! I like to sharpen my own knives but I've never been good with freehand sharpening v grinds on a stone or touching up convex edges on sand paper. The consistent angle sharpeners for me are so much easier to get a razors edge. It would be cool to see how you do a convex knife. I've only ever done V-grinds.

    Good luck with your business venture!
    Thank you for the input. You are correct in that I am not applying a convex edge to the blade.

    Zknives has a great illustration about convex and double bevel blade shapes: http://www.zknives.com/knives/articl...dgetypes.shtml

    You can also maintain a convex edge through stropping (see Unofficial Fiddleback Maintenance thread): http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ovement-thread!

    In my experience, thinning the edge by stropping is very difficult and may mar the finish of the blade face. I think it is a great way (along with an honing ceramic) to upkeep a blade that is already sufficiently sharp... although honing on a ceramic will also apply a microbevel. That said, there are service providers here who can grind a knife to a zero-convex edge. Prior to posting here, I did let Andy know what I was proposing to do with the knives and how I would go about doing it. He let me know it would not invalidate the warranty as long as the knife did not touch a rotary tool or a grinder.

    Unfortunately, although I can certainly polish a convex edge, I would not be able to establish a new convex bevel or make the knife more acute with a convex edge without changing the finish of the blade on the entire surface of the knife.

    Stropping a compound double bevel will eventually smooth the shoulders on the edge and the performance should be comparable. Certainly, I cannot tell the difference. However, I can perceive the difference between a knife that is sharp and one that is not

    My only goal is to make the knives sharper. There are lots of great discussions here on Bladeforums about this topic:


    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ight=convex+vs

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...vs-Multi-Bevel

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...rind-Edge-Myth

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...nd-Flat-Grinds


    Quote Originally Posted by twindog
    ...Draw any convex edge or blade grind you want. The edge or the blade will be bounded by three points: the apex and the two shoulders. If you connect those three points with two convex arcs, you'll have a convex edge/blade. If you connect those same three points with two straight lines, you'll have a V edge/FFG and all the metal within the FFG will be inside the arcs of the convex sides. That's what convex means.

    ...If the arcs that define the convex edge are acute, there can be a very large difference between the performance of a V edge and a convex edge, with the V edge cutting much better and the convex edge being more durable. If the arcs that define the convex edge are slight -- think the arc of a circle the size of the earth, there will be virtually no difference between the two edges because the convex edge will be almost exactly a V edge to anyone without an electron microscope.
    Last edited by Panthera tigris; 07-20-2016 at 09:45 PM.

  8. #28
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    Just to be clear for readers: any Fiddleback Forge knife you get back from me will still have a convex grind (if they were made that way). The production knives are flat ground, and they will still be flat ground.

    I will apply a compound double bevel or a micro bevel to the apex/bevel/primary cutting edge of the knife. The area I propose to work on will not alter the overall grind of the knife except for the very cutting edge.

    I had the opportunity to work on one of my own this morning, an Al Warren piece in CPM S30V. This one is set to 18 degrees per side and was stropped with the Veritas green compound.

    Last edited by Panthera tigris; 07-20-2016 at 07:37 PM.

  9. #29
    Awesome! Congrats on your new venture! I love sharpening my knives to its a great way to feel "pure" for a little while. Good luck!
    Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

  10. #30
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    I am not a sharpening guru by any stretch, and don't want to derail this thread. I also don't want to get too far into a convex vs flat edge bevel debate, but feel compelled to add my $.02.

    If TripleT knows what he is doing (and based on what I have heard, he definitely does), then the flat edge that he puts on knives will be both sharp and durable. I have put flat 18 dps edges on a bunch of my Fiddlebacks with my KME, and they work great. There are a TON of great conversations all over bladeforums.com about convex vs flat edges. There is NO consensus regarding which is "best." Also, a lot of convex edges that are not done with a grinder are a lot flatter than most people want to admit.

    I wish TripleT all the best with his new business. Although I do most of my own sharpening, I will keep him in mind if I need any help. I am sure that he will do a great job!!

  11. #31
    My knives are designed to be able to be sharpened with convex methods, or with flat edge methods. There is no harm using stones, rods, or any other HAND method. I designed this into my process at the very beginning because I've seen a lot of folks struggle with convex sharpening.
    Andy Roy

  12. #32
    Can you explain what your lovely wife is doing with that angle grinder though. I tilted my head at the pic like a dog trying to figure something out, but it didn't help.
    Andy Roy

  13. #33
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    Haha, actually it is just an oscillating multi-tool. The kind they use to cut fiber glass casts off. After that pic was taken she clamped down the wood and used a plunge saw blade to cut it into 10 smaller pieces to make field strops. The blades don't rotate and they cut decently, but not as efficiently as some of the larger tools that can take a finger with them. These won't cut into skin or bone by accident.

    That's part of her humor. She wants to use a circular saw, but we are cutting and sanding with a pencil, cross-cut handsaw, and multi-tool. Hence, crude tools. The sanding attachment is pretty useful for close corner work though. I was able to reshape some fiddleback maple J frame grips by Kim Ahrends this weekend in some spaces an orbital sander would have just passed over, and in too narrow a space to hand sand.

    Update: I am bringing in some new Naniwa stones to challenge myself to bring it to the next level. 10k grit stone incoming
    Last edited by Panthera tigris; 07-21-2016 at 01:20 PM.

  14. #34
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    Andy received an example of TripleT's work.

    It's very nice and sharp too!!
    Phillip
    General Manager Fiddleback Forge & Collector
    Come visit our subforum

  15. #35
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    Andy received an example of TripleT's work.

    It's very nice and sharp too!!
    Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Feel free to use/abuse/throw it at the wall/make dinner/have fun with it.
    Last edited by Panthera tigris; 07-22-2016 at 01:21 PM.

  16. #36
    The HB you sent me cleans hair off my arm very efficiently. Great job.
    Andy Roy

  17. #37
    I sent my well used EDC II down to TripleT....let the fun begin!!!


    Chris D.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddleback
    The HB you sent me cleans hair off my arm very efficiently. Great job.
    Awesome. I am still testing a bunch of different steels and hope that folks here will let me know if the edges hold up in field use.

    I have to be careful shaving or arms will soon be bare. Plus, sometimes I miss, at which point edge testing becomes self-injurious behavior

    Quote Originally Posted by CAD
    I sent my well used EDC II down to TripleT....let the fun begin!!!


    Chris D.
    I thought this was a gift... I guess I'll have to buy my own EDC II now...
    Last edited by Panthera tigris; 07-22-2016 at 01:37 PM.

  19. #39
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    Congrats TripleT! Good luck with your new venture!

  20. #40
    Sweet edges TripleT! Best of luck with the new venture.

    Oh, and I see what you are doing here... Get her hooked on simple tools so when she unwraps that new table saw at Christmas she'll be smiling instead of rolling her eyes.

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