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Thread: 44 special over 357

  1. #41
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    The 44 Special is not a bad general purpose caliber. It's main attraction was two fold (1) a smaller framed revolver than the 44 mag, (2) as a step child to a 44 magnum revolver shooter.

    I'm a 41 magnum guy. I like them around 1100 fps as I still like some oomph (since it's a magnum) and is more pleasant to shoot than traditionally loaded 41 mags. The 44 mag is about the same, just a tad larger bullet diameter with more bullet and factory load options.

    I don't know about most of you, but I generally don't like to be pounded (with recoil) every time I shoot a big bore. That is not to say that I still don't like the bigger ones. I stopped at 475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger as my most inherently powerful handgun caliber. I'm comfortable there.

    I see this GP-100 as the answer to many big bore shooter dreams as a smaller frame big bore. I think it will work for them nicely. I wouldn't mind owning one actually. I pretty much sold off my 44 mag revolvers a number of years ago (mostly S&W Model 29's) and stayed with the 41 magnum as my big bore caliber of choice. It is enough for me and mates well with the larger bored 475/480 that I use for hunting. Didn't hunt big game this year. So the 475/480 didn't see any potential action.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mete View Post
    JB in SC , Cor-Bon has two nice loadings for the 44 spl ,One is a JHP and one an all copper bullet. Both good rounds , effective with those weights and velocities.

    BTW my original research of 357 vs 44mag was as intensive as I could make and the result was that the 44mag was about twice as effective on deer ! In either case choice of bullets is a big part of the performance !! My deer hunting rifle or handgun is with all copper Barnes type.
    mete,

    Buffalo Bore offers a hard cast 255 Keith @ 1000 fps, it's very expensive at about $80 a 50 round box. They offer a soft cast 190 HP @ 1150 fps with a gas check too. Both are fairly comfortable to shoot in a FA Model 97 and a Model 69 S&W (L frame).

    There's nothing shabby about the Speer Short Barrel Gold Dot 200 grain .44 Special load, a great bullet that performs like a bonded bullet with nice expansion and deep penetration. Very soft shooter in a steel framed revolver.
    Last edited by JB in SC; 12-26-2016 at 11:32 AM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22-rimfire View Post
    The 44 Special is not a bad general purpose caliber. It's main attraction was two fold (1) a smaller framed revolver than the 44 mag, (2) as a step child to a 44 magnum revolver shooter.

    I'm a 41 magnum guy. I like them around 1100 fps as I still like some oomph (since it's a magnum) and is more pleasant to shoot than traditionally loaded 41 mags. The 44 mag is about the same, just a tad larger bullet diameter with more bullet and factory load options.

    I don't know about most of you, but I generally don't like to be pounded (with recoil) every time I shoot a big bore. That is not to say that I still don't like the bigger ones. I stopped at 475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger as my most inherently powerful handgun caliber. I'm comfortable there.

    I see this GP-100 as the answer to many big bore shooter dreams as a smaller frame big bore. I think it will work for them nicely. I wouldn't mind owning one actually. I pretty much sold off my 44 mag revolvers a number of years ago (mostly S&W Model 29's) and stayed with the 41 magnum as my big bore caliber of choice. It is enough for me and mates well with the larger bored 475/480 that I use for hunting. Didn't hunt big game this year. So the 475/480 didn't see any potential action.
    I found a lighter revolver with about 25% less recoil than a .44 Magnum was my comfort level. I eventually went to the .45 Colt in a Freedom Arms 97. When FA offered the .44 Special I sold my .45 and never looked back. I owned five 97's in various calibers before I stopped hunting....they are expensive, but nothing compares as to accuracy. It's such a handy revolver, when my first one was delivered the guy at the shop thought it was a single six it was so small.

    The S&W Model 69 L frame is a nice revolver in a lighter frame.

  4. #44
    Alright. First, I hope you aren't doing your own reloading. And second...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemapeli View Post
    .357 has more penetration than the .44mag,,
    Based on what information?

    The .357 was given to police forces to have penetration and stopping power (enough to go through a car door or light armor and still kill). This was c.1900's in the era of bonny/clyde and prohibition days.
    This might be true. But the .357 Magnum originally started out as a hunting cartridge, and bagged a lot of game. And the early .357 Magnum revolvers were quite expensive, so they didn't see widespread police use.

    The .44 mag is a vastly underpowered round, it is just fat and big.
    Elmer Keith designed both .357 and .44 Magnum rounds, and he created the .44 Magnum to surpass the .357 Magnum. Are you saying that he didn't know what he was doing, and created an inferior round of ammunition?

    The .44 is a big slow moving bullet, comparable to the .45 (non-ACP, which is a larger and more powerful "law" round)
    The .45 Colt and .45 ACP are of approximately equal power.

    (What I mean by this is both rounds are large calibers for the small arms genre of gun. Both the .44 and the .45 are slow moving (800-1000fps without being hand loaded beyond loading specs or +P/Special)
    For once a true statement. Both the .44 Special and .45 Colt are of similar qualities in their standard configurations.

    The .44 is more powerful than the .45 just based on casing length and width (design)
    Case length and width don't determine anything in terms of power. The original .45 Colt needed a large case in order to hold black powder, with the case being stuffed to capacity. The modern loading with smokeless powder only uses a tiny portion of the case volume, in order to keep pressures manageable.

    The physics case the powder to burn slower, and most generally a revolver will have a longer barrel, causing the round to generate more velocity in the barrel.
    Revolvers don't generally have longer barrels, except in specific configurations. Some have shorter barrels than semi-autos, some have longer barrels. Both have shorter barrels than single shot pistols.

    Most .45 barrels are only two to three inches in length, most .44 barrels are at least 4 inches, giving the .44 more velocity.
    Where the hell are you getting your information from? Modern-made .45 Colt revolvers like the S&W Model 25, and the Ruger Redhawk, both have four inch barrels.

    I know that may not make much sense by saying it,, but compare a .22 caliber LR round leaving a ruger to a .22 caliber LR round leaving a deranger with a two inch barrel. Same concept. There will be muzzle flash and a loud bang, but the velocity will me substantially lower coming out of the deranger than the ruger. So without any argument, the .44 rimfire is SUBSTANCIALLY more powerful and has much more stopping power.
    We aren't even talking about the .44 rimfire round. What're you doing, bringing the Henry 1860 cartridge into the equation? That's irrelevant to the discussion.

    The .45 ACP is carried by many law enforcement personnel in north America in SIG226's; which is one of the most carried guns by law enforcement along with the Glock, the SIG P228 (calibers vary), The M9 or Beretta 92f or my favorite the Beretta 92R (9mm,22, or .40 cal), and the 1911.
    Most of the guns you just mentioned are 9mm exclusively. Saying Glock tells us nothing about caliber, and only the 1911 is chambered in .45 ACP.

    The Sig 226 is another law enforcement gun that is heavily carried. I should really say that the SIG 226 is a "service" gun and not just law enforcement. The SIG 226 was the first choice for the Navy Seals in the 70's and onwards or there abouts. (I know in 1989 the SIG P228 saw service in the Navy Seals as well) The gun has tritium night sights-H3 helium isotope that is radioactive. The SIG 226's are known to have frame failures after 5000+ rounds, this is due to being both ACP (which has a higher power) and also the fact that the slide and action is so damn heavy without much lower frame to contact. My personal favorite are the older navy seals 226 frames without the accessory rail on the bottom and tritium sights.
    Early model 226s had this problem. However there's no evidence of this being the case anymore. There's no evidence that SIGs are suffering from cracking frames after such a piddly number of rounds being fired, otherwise it'd be all over the internet. It's not happening. You don't know what you're talking about.

    I choose .357,,,, it is the best survival and SD gun with speedloaders or moonclips.
    Reliablility is a definite strong point.
    So long as the gun is well made.

    Also, you run a very low chance of "limp handing the firearm", everyone from children to women can shoot these guns well with little to no instruction or training.
    Limp wristing happens regardless of the gun. Some simply tolerate it better than others.

    Cleaning is easy as well.
    Cleaning a semi-auto isn't all that hard. Provided you don't get careless and start throwing parts because you're in a hurry.

    Maintenance is relatively simple, EVEN the internals.
    That depends on the maintenance you're talking about. Some of it is very labor intensive.

    You could realistically purchase extra springs and parts and cnc or dremel compartments in the rubber or non rubber grips of a revolver; this would make the gun so reliable that you would not have to second guess it.
    How the hell does making compartments in the grip make a revolver anymore reliable than it already is?

    In my mind that is what really makes the GUN a survival gun.
    There's no way the grip of a revolver has enough room to be hollowed out to carry the spare internals you're talking about.

    Any kind of 1911 or Sig or Glock would not have a place for extra parts, and any broken springs or parts would render the firearm inoperable and useless. They are also much harder to service without specialty gun tools. You could (in a pinch) fashion your own gun spring if you really needed too with a 1911 or .357 or .44.
    If the lock work on a Smith & Wesson should break, you're not going to be able to fix it on your own without the proper tools. Provided you know what you're even doing, and don't have the custom fit the parts to insure your cylinder timing remains accurate.

    One more reason I hate .44 mag is that it is rare to find even in shooting sports stores, and it is expensive and underpowered.
    Bull****. The .44 Magnum might be expensive, but it's neither rare nor under powered.

    It has virtually no penetration through any sort of armor.
    It's a pistol round. Pistol rounds don't have penetration through any sort of armor.

    Definitely the .357 for my personal choice for a survival/SD/EDC/or other. Best option. If you want more power, go with a S&W 500 mag. You can also shoot less expensive .38 +P out of a .357, giving you yet another option when ammo becomes scarce.
    Yeah, because just about every damn ganado is just dropping .500 Magnum ammo left and right.

    Think about these facts and thoughts,,,
    Might just save your butt.
    All the best,,
    Zemapeli.
    Lots of thoughts, very little facts. Might just get your butt killed sideways.

  5. #45
    Thanks, Charlie_K....., I just didn't have the energy or patience. Both rounds obviously have their advantages, and either will serve its owner well for field duty, personal protection, plinking, whatever. Sometimes...., the most compelling reason to buy a new gun is because you want it. I'll take one of each, thanks.

  6. #46
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    The .44 special is most compelling to people that already have other guns and who reload their own.

    Elmer Keith's promotion of the .44 special is what lead to the .44 magnum. In a sufficiently strong firearm the .44 special can be loaded to perform better than the .357 magnum on big game. Otherwise the .357 magnum will serve well.

  7. #47
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    ...withdrawn.
    On second thought, nevermind. Was foolish enough to get into the Full size 1911 vs. Full Size Glock in .45 discussion...don't even want to re-open this kind of can of worms.
    Last edited by SevenOfNine; 12-29-2016 at 02:57 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velitrius View Post
    That's the spirit! Brush up on your Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton and hit the bench. Many configurations indeed.

    Easy on the gun, easy on the wrists, with low pressures the brass will have a superb lifespan.

    Come back here and post a review when your grin subsides a bit.
    I don't think they have been released yet. Recently sold a pistola and have the cash in hand.

  9. #49
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    I know of one guy that somehow managed to get one over on pistol-forum.com.

  10. #50
    Go 10mm, Think of it like a 357 on steroids with heavier projectiles especially with todays 10mm ammo like buffalobore and underwood ammo. Check out the foot pounds of energy delivered compared to other calibers you'll be surprised. Here you go,

    Last edited by d762nato; 01-03-2017 at 09:26 AM.

  11. #51
    I have the Ruger GP-100 .44SPL on order, and I CAN'T WAIT!!! Found it for $250 less than the MSRP, and most of the legitimate online reviews have been impressive. Should make a really nice, modern version of the classic Outdoorsman to handle anything that might be encountered in forest or field. Yes...., I have more powerful and higher capacity handguns that I enjoy carrying and shooting; however, the .44 Special is an excellent all-purpose field round capable of handling most tasks with aplomb. If the Ruger folks are listening......, the GP-100 would be an excellent platform for a 5-6" 10MM

  12. #52
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    The way I see it is there was a reason for them coming up with the 44 and .357 mag.
    I would go .357 and day over .44 sp only. If I though I wanted .44 sp I would just buy a 44 mag so I could shoot the sp. if I wanted. Same with a .357 and .38.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by d762nato View Post
    Go 10mm, Think of it like a 357 on steroids with heavier projectiles especially with todays 10mm ammo like buffalobore and underwood ammo. Check out the foot pounds of energy delivered compared to other calibers you'll be surprised. Here you go,

    Does that include the fake 10 mm mushroom cloud photoshopped in?

  14. #54
    I prefer .357 for a revolver in most cases and I often carry a .38 442.

  15. #55
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    Shot placement is more important than caliber.

  16. #56
    ^Good point^....., And, most hand-gunners will be more accurate with a special than a full-house magnum. YMMV.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARTT1 View Post
    Shot placement is more important than caliber.
    Very true but if I had to place a shot I would rather if they had any buddies with them see all their internals exit through their back. Maybe then I wouldn't have to place a second shot.
    That being said I carry a Glock 23 with Hornady TAP. Figure that will do the job.
    I have had the experience of hunting down a rouge cow with that G23,a cow will make you question what you think your pistol will do.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB in SC View Post
    I found a lighter revolver with about 25% less recoil than a .44 Magnum was my comfort level. I eventually went to the .45 Colt in a Freedom Arms 97. When FA offered the .44 Special I sold my .45 and never looked back. I owned five 97's in various calibers before I stopped hunting....they are expensive, but nothing compares as to accuracy. It's such a handy revolver, when my first one was delivered the guy at the shop thought it was a single six it was so small.

    The S&W Model 69 L frame is a nice revolver in a lighter frame.
    The Freedom Arms 97's are hard to beat. I have one in 357, but wished it was 44 special. I also have a FA Model 83 in 454. The 454 is a brute.

  19. #59
    All of the above mentioned firearms will "take care of business". It's just a matter of personal preference and intended use. IMHO, If you can't hit a pie plate five times with five shots standing from 25 yards in five seconds..., you are probably overgunned and/or you need more practice. Don't laugh by the way, it's harder than it sounds.

  20. #60
    Wow, what a bunch of heated discussion! At any rate, back to the original question. Back in the day, we had loaded 246 grain soft point bullets in the .44 Special. Nice, good powered load that would suffice as a self defense tool if the need should arise. I always felt that I enjoyed greater accuracy at the range with the milder .44 Special loads, just as my most solid groups tended to be with the .38 special. You could hunt deer with the .44 Special, but I favored the accuracy of the simple .30-30 which did the job without much fanfare.

    It is not a cup of tea for everybody, but I would not mind a Ruger in .44 Special. If you are a reloader, don't worry about it. You'll find .44 Russian cases as well if you take the time to have a look around. Of course, Wal Mart isn't going to have any .44 Special ammo.

    Like many of us, we stick to the older ways. In this case, the venerable .357 is very hard to beat. You get so many loads and ammo is just about as plentiful as they come. When I get in the mood, the lowly .38 rounds offer some very sweet plinking. What more could a man desire?

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