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Thread: Fake Ontario Rat - 1?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
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    Midwest
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    Angry Fake Ontario Rat - 1?


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    So after reading about the Rat - 1 here, more than once, I decided to buy one as a 'beater' knife to keep in the garage. Never strip 12ga wire with a good knife. It won't actually put a notch or chip in the edge on the blade, But it will feel that way, when you have to sharpen the knife to get rid if the dull spot you put in the blade.

    So I decided to buy one from China, because they cost half as much as the one from the USA, After the usual 3 to 4 week wait, it showed up today.

    There is so much friction on the pivot, or whatever, I am unable to open the knife with the thumb stud. I had to pull on BOTH of them with my other hand, to get the knife to open. I thought the pivot screw(s) were just too tight. But no. There is generous side to side movement of the blade on the pivot. The blade is actually LOOSE on the pivot. I have no idea why there is so much friction. Crap manufacturing tolerances seems like a likely cause. I work the blade open and mostly closed, to see if it will free up a little. Nope. No such luck. I got my little bottle of oil, with the long thin applicator tube. I put a few drops on the pivot. I worked the blade back and forth. It still takes considerable effort.

    This was when I noticed that the tip of my left index finger, and my left thumb, are stained reddish brown; the unmistakable color of rust. I had gotten a little oil on my finger and thumb; the little bottle of oil had oil on the outside. It helped dissolve the rust.

    My close up vision is poor, without my other pair of glasses. I got them, I took a really close look at the blade. It is covered with tiny flecks of rust. Everywhere. One side has more rust than the other side. I suppose from how it was stored. There are tiny pinprick sized flecks of rust, covering the entire surface of the blade.

    The blade is stamped 'AUS-8'. AUS-8 steel is an older stainless steel. I have some old SOG knives with AUS-8 blades in them. They sharpen easily, and take a very, very fine edge. AUS-8 stainless steel does NOT rust. Ever. You can cut lemons with it all day, and it won't dull. Leave lemon juice on the blade for a week. Nothing happens. I've done that.

    So I'm thinking, given what I've seen, this can't possibly be a REAL Rat-1 knife. It must be a REALLY cheap Chinese knock-off of a cheap knife made in Taiwan. Is there NOTHING the Chinese won't won't make illegal copies of. to cheat people out of a dollar or two? I paid $13 for this knife. How much money can be made from a knockoff of a $13 knife? And that includes shipping from China to the USA.

    I'm sorry I can't post photographs, but the closest I can get is 30 inches with my camera. At that distance, the rust doesn't show up. All you can tell is that it's a knife.

    What says the group? Have knock-off Rat-1 been found before? FML.
    Last edited by Goldenlight; 01-10-2017 at 10:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    672
    Without pictures, it's tough to say. I agree with you that aus8 does not rust easily. And it's very odd that it would have that much rust.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Alexandria, Va
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    4,620
    Sorry, hard to have sympathy for you here.

    In what world do you think you can get something for 50% less than the cost from a legit source and it will be legit.

    Chalk this up as an learning lesson and move on.

    You can buy knives for $5 from China so they are probably making a huge markup at $13.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    409
    I can tell you without question the $13 RAT-1 is a sad counterfeit. If the price is that low you gotta suspect something fishy Never assume that a low cost real knife is immune to counterfeitting. I've seen fake Kershaw OSO Sweet which is only $16 for the real deal. Fake Spyderco knives abound for under $20 too. Sorry friend. Buying online can be dangerous. Avoid the Bay and the Big River sites!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Texas
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    1,253
    For what product is that a sound strategy?

    I've not seen anything "cheaper straight from China" that wasn't also lesser quality.

    There are some great Chinese knives, but they're just Chinese knives. Not the Chinese equivalent of something more expensive.
    Bryce
    T.L.E. Sharpening

    TLESharpening@Gmail.com

    *** WTB: Yellow Delrin A.G. Russels ***

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    336
    @ GoldenLight
    The Price of the Rat I isn't cheap enough for you?, it's an excellent knife, worth every penny, I don't feel bad for you.
    Last edited by Dry-cell; 01-11-2017 at 10:40 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Anderson, IN
    Posts
    3,295
    You guys could be a little less harsh to the new guy. If I had none of the knowledge I had now, and just saw a knife available from two places, one of them half the cost, I would likely buy from the cheaper place. Sadly, you absolutely bought a counterfeit. The real RAT-1 is a great knife, albeit large. It is worth every bit, and if you can find a D2 version (just a few bucks more) it gives an even better value.

    This is an unfortunate lesson in the laws of too good to be true. There are phenomenal deals to be had out there, I bought a nearly $400 Benchmade Infidel for $100 (and it's actually legit!), but when you are on a website selling new products you are very unlikely to get a deal like that unless there is some kind of special inventory clearance, the products are fake, or they came from Bob's fell off a truck store. For user knives buying off the exchange here and paying via money order or PayPal goods and services give you almost no risk (scam via money order is a felony, and PayPal protects buyers) gives you the best chances of killer deals, and you get to buy pre inspected knives!
    If plants could feel pain, mowing the lawn would be a war crime.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Texas
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    1,253
    Fair warning:

    The Rolex and the diamond Tiffany tennis bracelet that the sketchy guy in an alley tries to sell you aren't real either. Oh, and that Nigerian prince who sent you an email isn't going to give you half of what's in his Swiss bank account after you send him $10k.

    I do know of a great deal on headlight fluid though if you're interested.
    Bryce
    T.L.E. Sharpening

    TLESharpening@Gmail.com

    *** WTB: Yellow Delrin A.G. Russels ***

  9. #9
    Goldenlightx I was informed by people around here who know to look for silver screws and clip. Telltale fakes. I know since my "rat" is also fake

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Arbuckle norcal
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    If you buy a knife really cheap directly from China, then it will be a fake 110% of the time.

    Sorry you got burned, but at least it was only 13$, and you learned a good lesson.

    If I were you I'd do a little experiment, I'd put the knife in a bucket of salt water and take pictures of it as if rusts away.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    nj
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    5,544
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenlight View Post
    After the usual 3 to 4 week wait, it showed up today.
    This tells me that you are familiar enough with ordering items from there to know that they are often not the best of quality.
    To attempt to save less than 2-3 hours wage (for minimum wage personnel) isn't worth it.

    What you saved in terms of a few dollars cost you:
    Lack of customer service
    Questionable materials
    Uncertainty of mind
    And on top of that being forced to wait a Month(!)

    If I were to buy a knife on the exchange today, and the seller said, I will get the knife in the mail today for $20 more, or you will have to wait until November 4th for this price, I would pay the $20 or not buy the knife...
    -------
    Unfortunately you learned the hard way.
    There are Many unscrupulous people out there that will do anything for a dollar. Be it counterfeiting a $400 knife or a $35 knife...

    Next time, save the time and trouble and buy from a reputable company.
    Do you consider peace of mind priceless?
    Proud Supporter: JK Knives #710 & BECKERHEAD #362
    WTB Maxamet Mule/Manix
    !!LOOK!!JK Knives, Customized Goodness

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    Texas
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    1,578
    Hi Goldenlight,

    It seems to me that many of my fellow Blade Forumites are dumping on you a little harshly. Until you've been around the knife industry a while, there's no way you could know how many knives are counterfeited or copied. I apologize for some of the sanctimonious tones you've been met with, but us knife knuts react strongly about counterfeits. Please don't let that dampen your excitement over a new knife, or discount the amount of help and knowledge that can be found here.

    But, to echo everyone else, yes that RAT Model 1 is a counterfeit. There are lots of ways you can tell, but at this point I think the knife speaks for itself. I guess one bright side to the experience is it WAS just $13...and when you finally get a legit RAT, you'll have this POS to compare it to !

    There's a list of Blade Forums supporting knife dealers. Any of them can be trusted to supply you with the real deal. Although I don't recommend it, you can actually have some luck buying knives on the Big River. Avoid "Marketplace Sellers" and try to make your purchases directly from the Big River folks. Any knives you see in The Bay are more than likely counterfeit. I hadn't looked at knives on The Bay for a while and browsed there the other night. I was amazed at how many fakes were being sold as the real thing...or the tricky new designation that Bay sellers sometimes use: "OEM".

    I'm sorry your first experience with a RAT was a bad one. I CAN vouch for the RAT as a knife you'll be pleased with...once you get the real thing. Be wary though, buying knives is a steep downward slope that often leads to poverty, edge-obsession and long, solitary nights with ceramic rods .

    Welcome to Blade Forums!

  13. #13
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    Sep 2008
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    outside Hockeytown USA
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    I'm sorry about your experience. Take it as a lesson learned.

    Here is the list that Hackenslash is referring too.

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...pdated-2-5-16)

  14. #14
    here you got. perfect place to get a real one
    http://www.knifeworks.com/search.asp...o+RAT+Model+1+

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    in the swamps in dixie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenlight View Post
    So after reading about the Rat - 1 here, more than once, I decided to buy one as a 'beater' knife to keep in the garage. Never strip 12ga wire with a good knife. It won't actually put a notch or chip in the edge on the blade, But it will feel that way, when you have to sharpen the knife to get rid if the dull spot you put in the blade.

    So I decided to buy one from China, because they cost half as much as the one from the USA, After the usual 3 to 4 week wait, it showed up today.

    There is so much friction on the pivot, or whatever, I am unable to open the knife with the thumb stud. I had to pull on BOTH of them with my other hand, to get the knife to open. I thought the pivot screw(s) were just too tight. But no. There is generous side to side movement of the blade on the pivot. The blade is actually LOOSE on the pivot. I have no idea why there is so much friction. Crap manufacturing tolerances seems like a likely cause. I work the blade open and mostly closed, to see if it will free up a little. Nope. No such luck. I got my little bottle of oil, with the long thin applicator tube. I put a few drops on the pivot. I worked the blade back and forth. It still takes considerable effort.

    This was when I noticed that the tip of my left index finger, and my left thumb, are stained reddish brown; the unmistakable color of rust. I had gotten a little oil on my finger and thumb; the little bottle of oil had oil on the outside. It helped dissolve the rust.

    My close up vision is poor, without my other pair of glasses. I got them, I took a really close look at the blade. It is covered with tiny flecks of rust. Everywhere. One side has more rust than the other side. I suppose from how it was stored. There are tiny pinprick sized flecks of rust, covering the entire surface of the blade.

    The blade is stamped 'AUS-8'. AUS-8 steel is an older stainless steel. I have some old SOG knives with AUS-8 blades in them. They sharpen easily, and take a very, very fine edge. AUS-8 stainless steel does NOT rust. Ever. You can cut lemons with it all day, and it won't dull. Leave lemon juice on the blade for a week. Nothing happens. I've done that.

    So I'm thinking, given what I've seen, this can't possibly be a REAL Rat-1 knife. It must be a REALLY cheap Chinese knock-off of a cheap knife made in Taiwan. Is there NOTHING the Chinese won't won't make illegal copies of. to cheat people out of a dollar or two? I paid $13 for this knife. How much money can be made from a knockoff of a $13 knife? And that includes shipping from China to the USA.

    I'm sorry I can't post photographs, but the closest I can get is 30 inches with my camera. At that distance, the rust doesn't show up. All you can tell is that it's a knife.

    What says the group? Have knock-off Rat-1 been found before? FML.

    aus8 does rust. let me carry any aus8 knife one day in the sulphur swamp water and sitting in my sweat drenched pocket, etc and it will have rust.

  16. #16
    You didn't get cheated, you cheated yourself.
    No medicine for that..

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    6,398
    Fake Rats abound at the discount Chinese sites (many Chinese sellers sell them on ebay too). Here's a thread with some discussion: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-Ontario-RAT-1.
    "There are plenty black marks on my character, but I can honestly say that I have never snorted a midget."
    -James Terrio

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Earth.
    Posts
    20,550
    And what do you expect from buying a clone? YOU chose to buy a clone.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    336
    I just ordered myself a Dresden Green Diamond for $50.00CAN, what a DEAL!, I can't wait to hold it!.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Anderson, IN
    Posts
    3,295
    Do we really need a mod to come in and stop people from scaring off a new member? Guys, you were new and didn't know any better at one point too. If most of us got this kind of reception when we joined, we wouldn't be here. It doesn't look like he knew he was buying a fake, it looks like he just bought what was cheapest not knowing the counterfeiting ordeal. Mistakes happen, and people have to learn somehow, but burning them at the stake for a small mistake is how you make the community toxic and nonexpanding.

    OP, I am sorry you bought a fake knife, I have nearly bought a few fakes myself before I lucked out and found a minor detail that revealed it. Sadly, since there is money to be made in knives they are counterfeited. This is why you always want to buy from a reputable source, like any of the dealers that support this site. Nearly all of the members participating in the exchange here are upstanding. Don't let the vocal salty minority color your opinion of the site as a whole, some people just take the topic of counterfeit knives WAY too personally.
    If plants could feel pain, mowing the lawn would be a war crime.

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