30" Sirupati !!!!!

[Matt Matheny]

This is a quick review, as I still have some things to put this one through. Weather here has been a rela crap shoot.

Anyway, A few weeks ago I get this this enormous package in the mail. I know that it must be the kukri that I have been drooling over for quite some time. The first thing that I notice is that it is beautifully finished. This rivals the GRS by Bura, I ain't lying either.

It wieghs a tad over 4 3/4 lbs. It is thirty inches plus a little. One of the nicer days a few weeks back I took this one out for a spin. WOW!!! I was severing saplings that were 3 and 4 inches in diameter. It was like cutting butter. So after the trees I moved on to som logs that needed to be split, well this kukri was spliting maple logs, not pine, not poplar, but one of the harder domestic woods. After I got the correct swing down it performed as well as a 3/4 length axe. If not better.

There is a learning curve to this one. A big kukri takes a while to figure out how to use it, but after you do the the shrubs are in real danger. Thanks again Uncle Bill this really is a great knife. Even my friends who are Katana snobs were impressed by this one.

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Life is short, art endures.

[Coronach]

Uncle Bill has been tempting me over email about 30" Sirupatis. I just told him that I was actually looking for something more in the 20" range, as I would be using it for martial arts and not trail clearing.

What is the general consensus about 30-inchers as weapons? What I think I've gleaned is that they're more tools than weapons...the are a bit "slow."

Thoughts?

Mike

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

[Tom Holt]

Re 30" sirupatis for martial arts -

I've got a Kumar Kobra, which is a heck of a lot lighter than the full-bore 30" sirupati; even so, it's far too heavy and unwieldy for martial arts use. But it's first class for clearing heavy brush, brambles, saplings &c once you get used to it.

Definitely a tool rather than a weapon.

[Bill Martino]

Many thanks for input!

Mike, a 30 inch knife that weighs in at about 5 pounds is not the easiest thing in the world to control. For me it is out of the question. However, if you can do it the knife becomes something really formidable. Only you know what you can handle and you should go with this.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[Matt Matheny]

I don't really know Tom... The 30" is not the lightning fast weapon that a katana might be but it could still be used as a weapon. Think more along the lines of hand and a half bastard swords. A female folk singer once said "anything can be a weapon if you hold it right".

It is definatly beatiful, and quite a bit of fun.

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Life is short, art endures.

[Rusty]

Speaking of which, you seem to know stuff like this Tom, so tell me - what is the difference between

1) hand-and-a-half;

2) bastard; and

3) two handed swords.

As I understand it, the hand-and-a-half is basically a single handed sword and so weighted, with just enough extra handle length to securely place the off hand behind the strong hand when appropriate.

A two hand sword is not only longer ( where the usual hand-and-a-half has a 28-33" blade depending on balance a two hander runs to 36-38" and up in blade length from there ) but balanced for use with two hands only, and in addition to that, has a handle long enough to get 3 or more hands on, so you can move your hands up and down the handle for different leverage at different times.

And finally I get the feeling a Bastard is more a 33-36" but relatively heavy blade with hand-and-a-half length ( just long enough for two hands ) but weighted for only two hand use.

This means my 2143Del Tin hand-and-a-half with 39 1/2" blade and compact handle for a 40" OA is neither a hand-and-a-half due to the too long length and balance of the blade nor a two hander as it's grip isn't long enough to shift your hands around on as occassion for more or less leverage is needed.

Could you clarify so we know where you are coming from when you use sword terms we may not uncderstan the meaning of?

[Bill Martino]

Tom, some of the martial arts folks who buy khukuris use some amazingly big khukuris with good results. Last fellow to order a couple of khukuris for Bando use was 6 ft 4 inches and weighed 280. A guy that size in good physical condition can use a knife five times bigger than one I could handle these days.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[the Khazar Kid]

"Bastard Sword" and "Hand-'n-a-Half Sword" actually mean the same thing. In Medieval times everyone called it a Bastard Sword, because it was longer than a Shortsword and shorter than a Longsword.

19th century collectors and museum curators coined the term "Hand and a Half Sword" out of politeness/prudery/reluctance to say the word "Bastard" every time they describe a Medieval sword. These were the same museum curators of Medieval armor who also renamed the Ballock Dagger the "Kidney Dagger".

[Coronach]

Erm, almost. remove the terms "short sword" and "longsword" and replace them with "longsword" and "two-handed sword," and you got it pretty much right.

Mike

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

[Bill Martino]

I continue to learn whether I want to or not...this forum is an ongoing class.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[Tom Holt]

Rusty -

I agree with Khazar Kid and Coronach. In practice, the division into categories was often blurred in the Middle Ages - and it's hard for us to understand exactly how these things were used, since medieval Europeans weren't the same size and shape as 21st century Westerners. IIRC the evidence suggests that they were shorter and slighter of build, and also a lot stronger physically, comparing like with like. If you look at the pix of single-handed swords cutting through armor like paper in (eg) the Maciejowski Bible, and then pick up a Del Tin or similar fairly accurate replica of a period sword, you get the impression that these guys must've been built like Schwarzenegger; then look at the shoes, armor and other surviving artefacts, and the data scientists have accumulated from medieval skeletons, and you get an impression of little short guys. The longbows fished out of the wreck of the Mary Rose were mostly 100lbs+ draw weight - and these come from a period when archery was in decline and people were lamenting the fact that the soldiers couldn't manage to draw the 'full-size' bows their grandfathers used...

The point being; because they were different, physically, in many important respects, their swords wouldn't have felt the same way to them as they feel to us. We might look at a 14th century bastard sword and assume that it was primarily for 2-hand use because of its size & weight, but we could easily be misinterpreting how the thing was meant to be used.

Playing around with the prototype yataghans (which I'm still working on, if anyone's interested) I've learned a heck of a lot about how very small alterations in proportions can radically affect the balance and handling of a sword - adding weight, for example, can easily make a 3lb+ sword feel much lighter and more agile in the hand.

Which brings me back to the King Kobra as a martial arts piece; it's lighter than the machaera or the 25" sirupati, but feels much heavier & more sluggish. On the other hand, because the weight and the centre of percussion are so far forward for a blade of this profile, it's ideally suited to long, deliberate slicing and drawing cuts against brambles, saplings and other 'machete-type' targets. I agree with the poster who says it could be used as a weapon - so could my keyboard, or my coffee cup; most anything can be a lethal weapon. But IMHO the King Kobra is far better suited for more peaceful purposes (and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anybody who, like myself, frequently needs something a bit heavier-duty than a billhook for clearing ground)

Tangentially; the UK government has recently announced that it's going to confiscate all airguns capable of producing more than 1 ft lb of muzzle energy, on the grounds that these are 'potentially lethal' weapons. They're absolutely right, of course; you could club a guy to death with the stock, no trouble at all. You could kill a man just as easily with my keyboard or my coffee-cup, of course, if you socked him in the right place or slit his throat with a piece of broken potsherd.

In other words, the only sensible definition of a weapon is 'something used to inflict injury', just as a tool is 'something used to do useful work'; and, of course, the category 'weapons' is just a subset of the category 'tools' - at least, in countries which recognise the right of self-defence, which the UK doesn't.

[Bill Martino]

Thanks for good info, Tom.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[Rusty]

A 30" Sirupati may not be a lightning swift sword, but it would make one wicked battleaxe. I let mine dangle from my hand and it clears the floor by an inch.

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In spring a young man's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of what;
The older man the whole year through has never once forgot.

[Will Kwan]

Rusty,

My test of a handy rifle is to hold it by the pistol grip and let it dangle. If it does not clears the ground, it is a handy rifle. Off course rifle is empty and finger outside the trigger guard for the test and check for barrel obstruction after the test (especially on the ones that fail).

Canadian law is kind of funny. Knives that are not very easy to conceal usually don't have any problems passing customs. Evil bayonets have been intercepted by customs.

Will

[This message has been edited by Will Kwan (edited 04-20-2000).]

[RayC]

Hello
200 styles;if it is a khukuri it is for me.The big blades have as much a place as the others with me.If you have never used a big blade you are missing out on a good work out.If you use a slow smooth motion you will feel your control and balance or the lack of it.Try it standing in place and then just try walking forward and back side to side with out braking the timing of the cuts.

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Ray

[Bill Martino]

Thanks for good input.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[Rusty]

It might be the best weapon of all, even if it is slow. Somebody charged out with a 30"er unsheathed and blood in their eyes, I'd go elsewhere (fast), meaning it would accomplish the purpose without any bloodshed.

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In spring a young man's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of what;
The older man the whole year through has never once forgot.

[Bill Martino]

That is certainly a consideration, Rusty.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[Matt Matheny]

I think you said it best when you said "Battle AXE" That is what this one is to khukris.

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Life is short, art endures.

[Rusty]

Went out south of town on pole line road out in the sagebrush til I wouldn't have company, and then gave the dirty thirty a little playing around. Swung it in circles, figure 8's, back and forth single and double handed.

My shoulders sounded like Rice Krispies. Snap, Crackle, and Pop. Thankfully I don't think I'll need to see the chiropractor.

All you'd have time for defensively is one swing. But that one swing *should* take out any imaginable opponent hit well with either edge or spine ( outside the Big Five of Africa, Tigers, Polar and Grizzly bears ).

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In spring a young man's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of what;
The older man the whole year through has never once forgot.