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Thread: Wusthof, Henckles, Cutco, Sabatier

  1. #1
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    Wusthof, Henckles, Cutco, Sabatier


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    I need some input on higher end kitchen cutlery. Do you have a preference of these brands? Or other brands to add to the list?
    I know that the older Wustof & Henckles used virgin steel.
    Full tang GOOD, three rivets GOOD. Forged GOOD. What else to look for?
    Any good purveyors? Good prices?
    Any & ALL input is much appreciated!
    Thanks
    John
    colobbfan

  2. #2
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    Hi John,

    Forged is great but not necessary. Check out any of Tim Wright's kitchen knives as examples of superior stock-removal construction. Whatever the construction, look for fit and finish, good blade shapes and balance, no gaps or filler between the bolster and the handles, clean grinding with even bevels. Rock the cutting edge of the chef's knife back and forth on a cutting board and make sure the blade contacts the board throughout the motion. Pick it up and hold it with the different grips you will use when chopping, slicing, peeling etc. Choke up onto the blade for better control of the point. Make sure it feels like an extension of your hand.
    IMHO, Wusthof-Trident are the best of the production kitchen knives. The ones to look at are the Classic (with rivets) and the Grand Prix with the rounded grip. Even though you can't see the 'full tang' on the GP they actually have a thicker tang than the Classics and are a little less 'blade-heavy' on the larger knives. The GP handle is also fatter if you have big hands. Otherwise they have identical blade shapes and pricing. Wusthof hot-drop forges all of their blades out of a single piece of Krups Stainless stock. Henckels forges their smaller blades up to 6", after which they are 'scintered' together out of three different steels (way high-tech). Henckels makes an excellent product and I own some of both. I just have a personal preference for Trident. As opposed to being a division of a large investment bank, Wusthof is still family owned and operated.
    I believe that 95% of the time you can get by in the kitchen with just a paring knife and a chef's knife. A bread knife is the next one I'd add. If I only could afford one knife though, the Japanese chef's knives with the Granton (vertically hollow-ground) edge are very nearly all-purpose. Send me an e-mail if you would like more info.
    Good luck,
    Dan

  3. #3
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    Hi John,

    to choose a good kitchen (chef´s) knife is not easy. It took me about half a year to find one that is to my satisfaction. I finally bought a Satake Chef´s Knife. It is made in Japan of a SS high carbon steel (RC 59-60). The blade is 9,5" long.

    The advantage besides the steel is its thinness (yet sturdiness), good ergonomics, balance and execution. It looks like a mixture of a traditional (French style) chef´s knife and Santoku. Unfortunately, I´ve not been able to find a good picture, only this one:

    The knife is IMO somewhat similar to Mac Knives, very nive knives as well. Also, George Tichbourne makes some awesome kitchen cutlery. However, Satake come so close to handmade forged knives as it can.

    Happy cooking wishes Paul

  4. #4
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    Two words will end the search for reasonable priced high performance kitchen cutlery.

    Murray Carter
    " The real art of living is to keep alive the longing in human beings to become greater versions of themselves." Laurens Van der Post in memory of James Mattis

  5. #5
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    Hi Gus,
    How can I contact Murray Carter? Is there a website to look through?
    THANKS
    John

  6. #6
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    Website has had problems lately.
    Here is his email. Murray Carter

    George Tichborne and Rob S. are know to make some nice ones also.

    Have fun John. You may want to run a search on Murray to see what others have said. I handled my first ones only this year and was very, very impressed.

    If you end up ordering from Murray, pick up a bottle of the sword oil he usually has available. Great stuff, I have started using it on my damascus fixed blades along with a bottom coating of Ren. Wax.
    Last edited by Gus Kalanzis; 08-08-2001 at 09:17 AM.
    " The real art of living is to keep alive the longing in human beings to become greater versions of themselves." Laurens Van der Post in memory of James Mattis

  7. #7
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    After years of backing and forthing on kitchen knives, my personal favorites are old-time carbon steel knives by either Sabatier or Thiers. The French knives are begin with thinner stock and are rather like a Spyderco Calypso.

    Since kitchen knives get used and cleaned continuously, I have never been concerned about rust. The carbon takes seconds to sharpen. The blackening on the blade are like good memories.

    I also keep two Japanese (no-name, bought them in Japantown SF for $18, chisel-ground with bamboo handles) santuko blades for cutting fish and certain vegetables.

    I used to have a mixed bag of Wusthof and Henckels knives, but they are kind of like meat cleavers. The stock is way too thick for my taste.

  8. #8
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    For the money, Forshner (sp?) by V-nox is very hard to beat.

    Paul

  9. #9
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    Question

    <B>Thanks Gus</B>
    I did do a search and found lots of good reports on the names you recommended.!
    <B>Thanks Architect</b>
    I recently purchased a Wusthof Cleaver.
    I'm currently using a nice set of Boker 440A kitchen knives. 10 inch down through paring & steak knives but I'm getting into the culinary arts more & more and want/need an exceptional set of knives.
    <b>Thanks Dan!</b>
    I'll email you later today with some more questions!

    Any ideas on where to get a great GENERIC wooden knife block that holds 16 - 18 knives, a steel, and kitchen shears? I may get into making a few up to see if there's any interest!
    CUSTOM KNIFE BLOCKS!
    Chances are there's someone already doing them I haven't heard of.

    John
    colobbfan

  10. #10
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    Thanks Paul!
    I knew I was forgetting Forschner!
    J

  11. #11
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    Did you look at the Messermeister products? They are the same high quality as the others, they just don't get the recognition of Wustof or Henckels.

    For blocks, check out the following two sites:

    http://www.jkadams.com
    http://www.johnboos.com

    I think Boos mainly deals in cutting boards and not knife blocks, but you can check it out just to make sure. Adams makes some very nice holders in a couple different styles. Neither company is on the low end of the price scale though, but if you want a good product that will last.................

    Take care.

    Andy

  12. #12
    Interestingly, we made some blind tests with a panel of six people on classic shaped, forged, full tang, riveted and bolstered European kitchen knives. We tested Henckels Pro S, Wusthof Classic and Sabatier Grand Chef. We had cutting and steeling tests designed to see if one brand would emerge better than the others. So such thing. The panel members couldn't even tell with any kind of statistical consistency which brand was which. I won't get into the details. I'll just tell you that preferences for these three, at least, are based on emotion and preference. Not on emotion. They all perform exactly the same statistically. We would have tested others but we wanted to stay with models that the panel members couldn't identify by feel alone. No, nobody got cut. Take care.

  13. #13
    I will admit that I have not purchased a blade by every commercial maker or custom maker, but I have purchased my share in over 30 years of knife collecting. I also do all the cooking from scratch in our household. I have found that the Wustoff Classic are for me the best. The other factor is the huge range of blades and other instruments that Wustoff makes. You can go from one piece to the other and have the same handling and cutting charachteristics. - Dick

  14. #14
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    i too would recommend the wustof (sp?) classics. the style is simple but elegant and they have a great feel in your hand.

    - Pete

  15. #15
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    John,
    I have 3 P.J.Tomes paring knives which I use every day. You should check out his work.
    JOCKO

  16. #16
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    I'll second Murray Carter. His knives are INSANELY sharp and well designed.

    In a less expensive production knife, I agree that the Forschners are a good deal. The steak knives will easily shave hair out of the box, and that's not something I've found in several other brands.

  17. #17
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    Cutco

    nobody even mentioned cutco here even though it was asked about. trust me, go with cutco. it has so many advantages and little to no disadvantages. if you need more information email me. just in case you're wondering, i own an almost complete set of cutco and have looked into other brands and cutco was the best choice.

  18. #18
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    CUTCO. The whole "super set" retails for two Grand!!! but then it is sold to the middle man for ONE GRAND so he makes a 100% profit. So CUTCO also makes a 100% profit. Then the "super deluxe CUTCO set" is actually worth $500.00 ( not adding in all the other hiddens). What better steel/design/features does Cutco have for $2,000 bucks that JAH, Wusthoff-Trident, or even a custom Kitchen set. Besides, My home kitchen is not a gourmet room for WHAM!!!, delicious HAMBURGERS...How many different knives does an REAL home need in a Kitchen????wolf

  19. #19
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    To say any knife has advantages and little to no disadvantages is inaccurate.

    Any blade will dull eventually. yes, even Cutco's Double-D edge will. If Colobbfan doesn't want to send his knives away to be sharpened, then Cutco's Double-D edge is a disadvantage. It depends on the user's preferences.

    Tiger, it sounds like you are a dealer. I once almost became a dealer. When I found out the pricces of the knives, I backed out of becomming a Cutco knife dealer. A year or so later I became a knife knut and learned that the prices weren't all that expensive, as people pay LOTS for knives! But I alse realized that they are, in my opinion, overpriced given the materials and such. As Wolfman pointed out, there is a lot of marking up that goes along the way.

    I am not saying that the knives don't work. No, they do cut and the double d edge works. However, you can't sharpen them at home. And a plain edge sharpened properly will work just fine in the kitchen. I also wouldn't like to get a Cutco blade without knowing the materials it is made from. Tiger, there is a difference between kitchen blades made of 01, 440-A and 420J2SS. What are the Cutcos made of? What are their Rockwell numbers? THis kind of information is important to me. And if it is important to say colobbfan, then a Cutco dealer's inability to tell colobbfan is another disadvantage of the whole Cutco Sales pitch.

    Please don't take this as a personal attack. I am glad you have come to the forums, because the more people that come here, the more I learn.

  20. #20
    For well designed Kitchen knives have a look at A. G. Russell's kitchen set. I bought a
    set for my son's wedding gift and found them to very good indeed. I plan to buy
    another set for my wife at chrismas. Yes, I've looked at cutco (sold it once too ,Ugh.)
    and many of the other brands mentioned here also. Found the A. G. knives to be an
    excellent value.

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