Please help: Going to court for a Ken Onion Kershaw

[tekniq]

Hello, I need some help here.

I was in a car with my friends when we got pulled over. Without going into the (un)constitutionality of the search that ensued, the officer confiscated it and wrote me up for possession of a dangerous weapon. I live in WA and I bought the knife over the counter in an army-surplus store, but you can buy them in the knife store in the mall now. (I just bought it when they first came out and before they were readily available.)

So, now I am going to court to fight this BS, and I want my damn knife back. I need some help and any info you guys could provide, including legal precedent. Here is the actual text of the complaint:

"On or about the 29th day of August, 2001, the above-named defendant, in the City of Bellevue did commit the crime of Dangerous Weapons by: possessing a spring blade knife or knife with blade that automatically releases by mechanical device or opens by force of gravity/movement contrary to the following statute/ordinance: BCC 10.41.280."

BCC 10.41.280 reads:
" 10.41.280
Dangerous weapons.

A. Every person who manufactures, sells or disposes of or has in his possession any instrument, martial arts weapon, or other weapon of the kind usually known as blackjack, slung shot, nunchaku, throwing star, sand club or metal knuckles or spring blade knife or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens or falls or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward or centrifugal thrust or movement; who shall furtively carry with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or who uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. "

If anyone can help me out here, please let me know. Any info is useful. Incidentally, as I have reached for my knife countless times where it always (I mean ALWAYS) was there before, including through four international airports, I finally gave up and bought a box cutter at a paint store for $1.29 which I can open nearly as quickly, has a blade of about the same length and is MUCH sharper. I don't plan to carry this thing around forever, but if I did get caught with it by our fine law enforcement officers in this moronic community, they would have no basis to take it, nor would I miss it much if they did.

Thanks in advance, wish me luck.

-tek

[Don Rearic]

Go post this in the AKTI Forum and see if they can get one of their Lawyers to handle this Pro-bono. I'm serious.

I was in the middle of writing a review of The Kershaw Boa for my website and I new this would happen sooner or later with the SpeedSafe™

[RARanney]

Don's advice is sound, and he is very knowledgable in this field. Give it a try. The eastside is a rather "politically correct" area, but who knows if this factored into the officer's decision. You might ask Kershaw and Ken Onion for their input also. Ken occasionally frequents the forums (didn't know when I first wrote this that he has his own forum). I see the smaller Chive at stores frequently. Who knows where the officer is going with this. Most officers try to balance common sense with the letter of the law. Perhaps this one just came out of Tueller training. Good luck.

[tekniq]

What's the AKTI Forum? Sorry, new here. Yeah, the Eastside is a pain. I get hassled all the time by the cops, pulled over for "not using my turn signal" when everyone who knows me knows I am vehement about using turn signals, etc. Oh well, I'll move when I can.

Incidentally, after taking my knife and detaining us for a half-hour, and taking my friend into custody on 'suspicion' of drunk driving, the officer left us to walk home 3 miles at 2 am. No phone, no car. Later I found out that after we split up, my other friend was detained again, and given the whole wants and warrants, check your ID, etc thing again for 45 minutes because he was "jaywalking" on his way home, by one of the officers who was there earlier. Basically he had followed us just to hassle us some more.

My tax dollars at work.

Thanks for your responses, I'm going to try to contact Kershaw also.

-tek

[poboy]

It seems to me that the term "automatically releases" in this law, exempts your knife, which takes a MANUAL action(your thumb on the thumb stud), from this law. But I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong. Check with your atty. on this point.

[Melvin-Purvis]

Good post! After I saw a KO "Speed Safe" at the BAKCA show last month, I knew that I'd finally found a folding knife that I liked...

(100+ fixed, 2 folders...1 Spydie, 1 SAK)

The same thought crossed my mind..."Will this cause me trouble down the line? Cuz it's fast, fast, fast...

Hope all works out for you there bud, the world's a watching. The AKTI forum is here at BFC under "Maker's and Manufacturers"

For Don:

"Troll-boy, why doesn't your website open?" Ya gotta pay those service providers I keep tellin' ya...

[forgemaster]

I just bought a Kershaw Avalanche. Still legal in New york for now.
I've been told that an automatic is legal in NY if you pocess a current fishing licence, are fishing or in the process of going fishing. Don't know this for fact but am checking on it. Good luck

[DC KNIVES]

Tekniq,I would also contact Judge Lowell Bray.He is the president of the Florida Knifemakers Association and writes law articles for Blade magazine.He is a great guy and very knowledgable on the subect.Hope this helps,Dave.
http://www.floridaknifemakers.org

[Hawaiian]

Kershaw has a very substantial interest in the legality of the speed safe mechanism. Email them. kershaw@kershawknives.com
and also call them. 800-325-2891. You might just get all the help that you need.
Also, I would think that when you explain to the judge that all the stores sell them and you had no idea it was illegal or you would not have purchased it, you might be able to have the charges dropped. That is if you can find them at Wal-Mart, rather than a surplus store.
I do note that the definition of automatic knife in WA is unique.
I posted a link to this thread on Ken Onion's forum. You may want to check out the replies.
http://www.kenonionknives.com/cgi-bi.../ikonboard.cgi
Good luck and be sure to post and let us know how this turns out.

[drshame]

You might also contact the store where you bought it. They should have a very serious interest in your case since if the state holds its' an illegal weapon, they sold you a prohibited weapon, and should be a party in the case. If it's a big business, they'll have an attorney representing their side..which should be the speed-safe design is legal, and the store and you broke no laws.

Find out how the knife came into the stores possesion, becauyse of Washington authorities hold it's a switchblade....then a whole lotta other companies broke federal laws shipping it...and selling it through various commercial parts...across state lines in violation of federal statutes.

You should not stand alone in this once the enlightened businesses realize if you lose...they lose even bigger!

Lotsa Luck!

[aerostar]

teknig
You live in the most Draconian of the states when it comes to auto knives. Not even cops can possess them.

I doubt if the store you purchased the knife from would have more than a passing interest as thy are not the ones involved in the court case.

The ATKI is a toothless tiger, as they are not interested in changing existing regulations, rather thy are interested in preventing new regulations from taking place.

The Second Ammendment Foundation is very interested in the auto knife regulations; however their primary mission is to deal with firearms issues. They can name 3 Washington state cases that were overturned involving automatic knives and surreptious carry in the Seattle/king county area. They are located in Bellevue.

[Bud Lang]

The Washington law on knives is almost identical to that in Kalifornia. The term "mechanical device" could be interpreted to mean "thumb stud". The way these laws are written they are all-inclusive, covering everything in the world, to nail you. Check with Kershaw first. They will possibly know if that surplus store is one of their customers. If you guys didn't give the cops any flak, and answered their questions, you might consider harrassment charges against them relative to their charging your friend for jaywalking and questioning, again, after turning you loose.

[Hy Fees, MD]

A few stores in my area (Bellevue, WA) feature SpeedSafe knives in prominent displays that let passers-by try out the knife -- Wade's Guns and Excalibur (sp?) in Bellevue Square Mall immediately come to mind. These are public and very visible places. I've been told the Black Out is 100% legal even here, but I don't think I'll be using mine in public from now on.

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by aerostar
The ATKI is a toothless tiger, as they are not interested in changing existing regulations, rather thy are interested in preventing new regulations from taking place.

I do agree with you for the most part. AKTI has shown a unique interest in eliminating overseas competition, more than protecting ALL knives. Their dicking around with fire when they do that in my opinion.

However, no one will know what they will do unless they are asked to do it and done so respectfully and nicely.

The Second Ammendment Foundation is very interested in the auto knife regulations; however their primary mission is to deal with firearms issues. They can name 3 Washington state cases that were overturned involving automatic knives and surreptious carry in the Seattle/king county area. They are located in Bellevue.

That's interested that SAF is interested in knives at all, I will have to check it out. It is pretty clear to me that ALL knives/edged weapons/tools are protected by The Second Amendment. Just on the face of it without getting too involved in that aspect of the discussion... The Department of Defense sought and obtained an exemption from the 1958 Switchblade Law which more or less places the Switchblade in a long list of "Small Arms." And that is the key to that.

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Melvin-Purvis
For Don:

"Troll-boy, why doesn't your website open?" Ya gotta pay those service providers I keep tellin' ya...

The Server/Host is paid, try getting a new PC Murvin' Pelvis.

[Hawaiian]

Tekniq, Per Ken Onion, Kershaw has not heard from you. Also, your email address in not listed in your profile, so they are not able to contact you. I posted Kershaw's email address in my earlier post. Ken's is shopjunky@aol.com If you want some serious help, contact them.

[Dinzdale40]

Well crap it looks lke i'm going to have to find something else than my chive to keep me amused in public. ihate all this PC garbage. I can get a carry permit and carry a handgun but a knife that an flip open is illegal this is total bs.

[Gus]

Welcome to Amerika .

[KenOnion]

Guys, I'm kinda curious if this incident is even legit. I've been watching this thing from the begining as has Kershaw. tekniq gave none of us an e-mail address nor has he/she called Kershaw after ample opportunity. This is nothing to get excited about, it could be nothing more than a hoax; and I have my suspicions. See that's the thing about anonymity, anyone can say anything they want.

At any rate if this is legit and I'm wrong, call Kershaw and they will take the necessary steps 1 (800) 325 2891 or leave an e-mail address where you can be reached with a real name.

[The Magician]

I just picked up a scallion at Bass Pro Shops. The largest outdoor store in the world. I figure if I have any problems locally they will handle it. Love the knife BTW.