Ripped off by Dale Reif

**Tom Anderson** · 05-04-2003, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
The other is that the maker no longer has any motivation to make the knife.

Keith, I beg to differ.

Making a great knife is important, but not the ultimate motivation.

Making money on the knife you made is important, but not the ultimate motivation.

Making your customers happy IS the ultimate motivation!

When someone sends me money for I knife I haven't yet built, I feel I owe them a knife built to their specifications that they will enjoy. Fulfilling their request in a timely manner is the least I can do to thank them for the trust they have invested in me.

People who take money for something they really don't plan on building are as bad as those who place orders for things they really don't intend to buy.

(edited typo)

**MtMike** · 05-04-2003, 06:19 PM

John (Wise Old Sage) is a good and honorable man, and certainly needs no defending. But this is the internet, and so many of us know each other only by our words on these forums, I thought I'd jump in here anyway.
I've known John personally for over 2 years, we've swapped knives and leather, I've eaten at his house, we've swapped sea stories about our days in the Naval Services (yes John, the Marine Corps is a Naval Service

). I've acted as humble consultant on a few of John's folder designs, and I've suffered with him through this whole ugly affair with Reif. 99% of the time John's about as mild mannered as 6'6" ex- jarhead can be, but this one subject really lights him up, and rightly so. Sure, he can be faulted for putting all that money up front, but remember, it was only after he'd dealt with Dale personally, and came to trust him.
John will get over this no matter the outcome, but I for one would like to see Reif act like a man and make good on his legitimate debts, to John and to others he may have shorted. We've all been short at one time or another, but that's never an excuse not to try to do the right thing.
In the meantime, there are hundreds of great makers out there, no reason to waste your money on the Dale Reifs of the knifeworld.
MtMike

**Keith Montgomery** · 05-04-2003, 09:16 PM

I understand the reasoning behind John giving the asked for payment in full. Having come to trust Dale from dealings that he had had with him in the past, John obviously felt that he could trust Dale to come through with his part of the deal. It is a real shame that his trust has been taken advantage of in this way.

Tom, I have absolutely no doubt that you are exactly the kind of person that your post shows you to be. In fact I am sure that most makers would be every bit as motivated to keep their customers happy as you would. Many times though, I have read posts by makers that state that if the money is paid in advance for a knife that the feeling is different once the time has come to make the knife than if they know that there is payment to come once the knife is ready to ship. I know that it is just a psychological thing, but it is there none the less. This is the case with many makers, but I am sure not with all.

It is still my view that unless you have asked a maker to create something for you that would be next to impossible to sell to someone else or you want very expensive materials used, you should never give more than a 20% to 25% deposit on any knife. Even then, once you have given a deposit, the maker should send you a signed agreement that states what the final price of the knife will be and give you what the maker considers to be an accurate delivery date. If the maker is unable or unwilling to do this then in my opinion you should under no circumstances consider giving any deposit whatsoever.

**john sage** · 05-04-2003, 11:29 PM

MtMike, Thanks for your words. And thanks for listening to my gripes about Reif. It's friends like you that make me love knife people.
Kieth, I sent Dale the money on trust, that was my fault. But after spending $6000.00 with him, I thought I could trust him, I was wrong.

Tom, First off, I love your knives, secondly, you're right, customer satisfaction is the first priority of any business man that wants to continue doing business, but obviously Dale is not that tyoe of person. How is this not career suicide for him? Is he really going to throw all of his business away over $1118.00? This makes no sense. I feel sorry for him, he is going down in flames right before our eyes, and not even trying to save himself. However, just because I pity him, dosen't mean I am going to let off, ever. Unless of course he sacks up and pays me or delivers the knives.

**cockroachfarm** · 05-08-2003, 06:55 PM

Wow, I just stumbled onto this thread and I am shocked! I have only ordered one knife from Dale and the entire transaction went very smoothly. Unfortunately, that one knife was a Matrix - with the "fake" carbon fiber inlays. When I asked to have this corrected, it was done post-haste. No problems at all. It was one of the early purchases in my knife collecting obsession and I wouldn't have known about that "fake" CF if another member here hadn't discovered the "switch" on his knife and made it public. I forget what Dale's excuse was, but at the time it sounded plausible. Dale obviously has talent, so I'm quite saddened to hear about his "reputation". He's not related to Alan Blade, is he?

**john sage** · 05-09-2003, 05:35 PM

UPDATE!

After much badgering from Don and Mike, and a phone call from my lawyer, Dale has promised the three knives he owes in the next three weeks, one knife per week. Alex, my lawyer, is sending Dale a letter to sign and return promising the first knife within ten days, or Alex is going to hammer him in a civil suit.

Many thanks to the Usual Suspects Don Deckert and Mike Mason for the help in attempting to get Dale to deliver.

Many thanks to Alex Assanti, the best lawyer I have ever seen, and a great friend.

I will keep everyone posted.

John Sage

Never deal with Dale Reif

**GigOne** · 05-09-2003, 06:09 PM

John,

It's a shame that it has taken so much to get what you paid for !

On the other side. . .it's also good news that your going to get what you paid for ! !

I don't think that too many of us will be doing business with Dale Reif ! OK. . .this POS !

Please. . .keep us posted with the delivery of your knives (and the condition of them) !

Cheers

**cpirtle** · 05-09-2003, 07:24 PM

I'm sorry to hear you're going to get stuck with this SOB's knives.

I'd want the money back...

**Joss** · 05-09-2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by cpirtle
I'm sorry to hear you're going to get stuck with this SOB's knives.

I'd want the money back...

So would I.

John,

Thanks for sharing this. This is only because people like you are willing to say it outloud that we get to know about it. Boy, I am going to steeeeeeer away from this fellow.

**MtMike** · 05-09-2003, 08:05 PM

Hey John -- wonderful news !! I'll be out your way in August -- gotta get my big wave surfin' jones taken care of

-- I'll be sure to bring some trade bait with me. maybe a couple of nice chinese knock-offs

I'd recommend you sell those bad boys on ebay --don't you bring those bad-karma objects 'round here !!
Will Bart have that sword ready for shipping by Aigust? I could just tuck it in my belt for the flight back -- or maybe my check luggage, right?
Hmmmmm, lawyers and knives -- seem to go together,
Mike

**cockroachfarm** · 05-09-2003, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by john sage
...Dale has promised the three knives he owes in the next three weeks, one knife per week...

That's good news! Pls post updates on this situation.

**notdos** · 05-12-2003, 11:47 PM

BTTT

**Joel Pirela** · 05-14-2003, 04:25 PM

So you only need to sue to get Dale to pay.....

Nice to know...

I won't say anything, John but your case is nothing compared to mine....

just a hint.... Atrox

mute mode "now" on

**Kit Carson** · 05-14-2003, 06:11 PM

**john sage** · 05-14-2003, 08:25 PM

Joel,
I had no idea the Atrox was a bummer for you, That is a great design, man, truly tip-top!
Apparently Dale sent a knife to me two days ago, but I have heard nothing, and recieved nothing. I will wait for the mail tomorrow and see what doesn't show up. It seems my lawyer got through to Dale, and a good thing for Dale, because my lawyer is one person I personally would not want to screw with. Alex is really good at making life hard for people, and as my friend, he doesn't have much liking for Mr. Reif.

We will see what comes of al this.

John

Never deal with Dale Reif

**Ren the devils trailboss** · 05-14-2003, 08:34 PM

dont get your hopes up..he now has missed two ship dates with me..because of the sheath allegedly..if the knife isnt here by end of week Ill let ya all know..

**FrankDL** · 05-15-2003, 01:50 PM

Well,
I got my knife back from Dale today in the mail. I will admit that it is sharper than when I sent it to him, but the refinishing job was just plain crap!
There are scratches still all over it , and it looks like he took a scotchbright pad to it at different angles! He didn't even bother to re-blacken his logo or the TAD logo and serial #. What a rip-off.

John, I truly hope that the knives he is making for you turn out good, but I gotta say, if the job he did on/for me is any indication of his current knifemaking ability, then you are in for more Reif-grief!

In my book, Dale Reif, does shoddy work and is not worthy of my time or business. I caution anyone thinking of doing business with him to reconsider their decision, least they be as disappointed as I am.

Frank

**MtMike** · 05-15-2003, 02:18 PM

Frank - I'm sure that Dale would have put a much better hump on your knife if only he'd had the time!! But with lawyer's meetings, and guys like John bugging him all the time, it's no wonder he has no time for knifemaking

Two years ago at John's house he showed me the first knives he got from Dale (yes, actual delivered knives!) and even back then John disgustedly pointed out for me the uneven grinds, mis-fit slabs, and poor file work for thumb ramps. And these were not inexpensive knives (cheap, yes, inexpensive no !)
Hard to understand why anyone would continue to take this kind of public scrutiny and still deliver such crap. Hope it all ends well, and soon
MtMike

**FrankDL** · 05-15-2003, 02:46 PM

Well Dale has made a conscious decision to do what he does. My feeling is that the money I gave him is from my hard work, and I expect to get my money's worth. We agreed to $75 for a satin-finish and a resharpening on a 5" fixed blade knife, and I end up with a horid scratched-up mess. I've e-mailed Dale and asked for a refund of $50 of the $75 I paid him, as he did resharpen the knife.

I'm now waiting for his response. Personally, I feel he is in self-destruct mode professionally. You just don't treat customers like he has and expect one's good reputation to stay intact.

Frank

**MtMike** · 05-15-2003, 03:05 PM

Frank -- couldn't agree more (except maybe that 25 is a pretty steep fee for a sharpening job)
John -- if you're reading this, go get another G+T (I'm buyin'

)
Mike

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