Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Carbon Steel Question: 5160 vs. 1060

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    www.linknives.com
    Posts
    1,934

    Carbon Steel Question: 5160 vs. 1060


    ADVERTISEMENT
    The composition of 5160 and 1060 is quite similar, but why is the performance so different?

    5160 holds an edge longer and gets sharper in my experience, why is this? Could the slight amount of chromium make a difference?

    Anyone who's tried both steels, I'd like to have your opinions on this topic. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Garland Tx
    Posts
    155
    5160-
    Carbon 0.56 - 0.64
    Chromium 0.7 - 0.9
    Manganese 0.75 - 1
    Phosphorus 0.035 max
    Silicon 0.15 - 0.35
    Sulphur 0.04 max

    1060-
    Carbon 0.55 - 0.65
    Manganese 0.6 - 0.9
    Phosphorus 0.04 max
    Sulphur 0.05 max

    1060 is a simple carbon steel, and 5160 is considered an alloy steel. The inclusion of Chromium and silicone make them act very differently. Chromium adds to rust resistance, and makes the steel harder. I think silicone adds to toughness, but I'm not positive without looking it up.

    1060 can be quenched in water, and 5160 can't.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yulan NY, yeah I know you have never heard of it
    Posts
    5,020
    5160 is deep hardenign where 1060 is (I think) shallow hardening.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Bentonville, Arkansas, United States
    Posts
    20,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bowen View Post
    1060 can be quenched in water, and 5160 can't.
    Not true.

    I have quenched many 5160 knives in water with zero failures.

    Kukris made in Nepal are made from 5160 and are water quenched.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Garland Tx
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Koster View Post
    Not true.

    I have quenched many 5160 knives in water with zero failures.

    Kukris made in Nepal are made from 5160 and are water quenched.
    I stand corrected.
    However, every 5160 blade I have quenched in water has cracked. Are you talking about brine, or straight water?

    I use regular water to quench 1050 and 1060, so I have never tried it with brine.

    I use oil for my 5160 blades.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    South of Minnetonka, MN USA
    Posts
    6,086
    The Kukris are only edge-quenched with water. They use a teapot and pour water along the edge. The edge gets quite hard and the body of the blade is quite soft.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Matherton MI
    Posts
    2,359
    5160 was made with oil quenching in mind, 1060 is designated as a water hardening steel, but in thickness' such as blades can be done in fast oils. As mentioned, that chromium makes the biggest difference, and silicon does indeed add toughness. Which property rises to the top in either steel will be highly dependent on the heat treatment.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Moab, UT
    Posts
    1,762
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin R. Cashen View Post
    . Which property rises to the top in either steel will be highly dependent on the heat treatment.
    I'm still pretty new at this, could someone explain this in a little more detail for me. I picked up some 5160 for use this summer and would really like to know how I would adjust the heat treatment for different properties, or is it just a matter of adjusting the tempering temperature?

    Thanks,

    Walter

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lewistown, Montana
    Posts
    3,372
    That little bit of chrome has a serious effect. Think of this the difference between mild steel and hardenable steel is that tiny bit of carbon, incidentally, about the same percentage as the chrome added to the 1060 that makes it 5160. Same amount of change would happen if you added a tiny bit of tungsten. It doesn't take much sometimes. Just 3% or so nickel and now you can make a sharp blade steel that can be used in a bandsaw

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Bentonville, Arkansas, United States
    Posts
    20,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bowen View Post
    However, every 5160 blade I have quenched in water has cracked. Are you talking about brine, or straight water?
    The ones I have done were straight water. Perhaps I lucked out? ~20 times in a row? *shrug*

    And, like Kevin said, thickness makes a huge difference.


    Lest anybody get any funny ideas...I do 99% of my quenching in oil - usually Brownells ToughQuench....sometimes transmission fluid. I would much rather use oil.

    Just was responding to the "can't" part of your statement.



    Jeff has it right about the kukris - teapot with hot water...it's done that way so the bladesmith can watch the colors change during heat-treat. If they had a way (impossible) to edge quench reliably, I'm sure they'd use it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Norfolk,Va.
    Posts
    19,125
    As to 5160 and 1060 being very "similar", remember, men and women are genetically nearly identical. That little extra piece of DNA that make a Y chromosome into an X chromosome makes a HUGE difference, though. Same with a little chromium.
    Stacy
    Stacy E.Apelt
    It is better to die fighting evil than to live under it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Bentonville, Arkansas, United States
    Posts
    20,833
    Dang....I'm gonna use that next time I'm at a hammer-in.

    "You see, guys.....chromium is.....well, it's like sex"







    just yankin' ur chain, Stacy!!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Warwick, Rhode Island
    Posts
    1,466
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Koster View Post
    ..."You see, guys.....chromium is.....well, it's like sex"

    No wonder I like forging 5160 so much

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lewistown, Montana
    Posts
    3,372
    and all thoughts of actual metallurgy flys from their brains to be replaced by................................................ ............,,,,,,,,,,,........................... ...................................owwwwww thats hot!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Success, Missouri
    Posts
    9,457
    The difference between men and women is much greater than the difference between 5160 and 1060 But a good comparison.

    With carbon as low as .60, a little alloy is needed to boost performance. I prefer more carbon to get the job done but these are pretty good knife steels. 1065 is noticeably a better performer than 1060.
    Don
    www.sunfishforge.com

    2014 Fisk Micro Show Oct 10-12; Jerry Fisk, John White, JR Cook, Don Hanson III
    Member CKCA, ABS

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Syracuse NY, Will the last employed worker please turn out the lights?
    Posts
    3,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bowen View Post
    I stand corrected.
    However, every 5160 blade I have quenched in water has cracked. Are you talking about brine, or straight water?

    I use regular water to quench 1050 and 1060, so I have never tried it with brine.

    I use oil for my 5160 blades.
    I believe that brine actually is a more aggressive quench than straight water due to the the boiling temp being raised by the sodium and chlorine ions, kinda like antifreeze, multiple ions raise boiling point so it can absorb more heat before phase change,I'm thinking there may also be a nucleation effect of salt dust when it does vaporize helping to make smaller steam bubbles, but I do not have the science background to be able to take that (nucleation that is) beyond theory

    Anyone?

    -Page

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Hudson, MA
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshadow View Post
    I believe that brine actually is a more aggressive quench than straight water due to the the boiling temp being raised by the sodium and chlorine ions, kinda like antifreeze, multiple ions raise boiling point so it can absorb more heat before phase change,I'm thinking there may also be a nucleation effect of salt dust when it does vaporize helping to make smaller steam bubbles, but I do not have the science background to be able to take that (nucleation that is) beyond theory
    According to Tool Steel Simplified, as modified by my memory :

    Brine would theoretically be a slower quench than plain water but the nucleation is much less which leads to:

    • Faster quenching because more steel is actually in contact with water during the early phases, and
    • Lower stress quenching because there aren't large bubbles that cause some of the steel to cool much slower than adjacent parts of the steel (can you say ping?).
    Dan Pierson

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sask, canada
    Posts
    224
    Antifreeze raises the boiling point, but at higher concentration's has a negative effect on heat transfer. I keep meaning to do some experimentation on pure antifreeze as a quench liquid. So if 5160 isn't cracking in water, what steel's can absolutely not be quenched in water? I have some 1" mistery round(rod weeder rod) that I forged down to 1/4" and it just cracks all to heck in water.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Pierson View Post
    • Faster quenching because more steel is actually in contact with water during the early phases, and
    • Lower stress quenching because there aren't large bubbles that cause some of the steel to cool much slower than adjacent parts of the steel (can you say ping?).
    I was just about to post about the vapor jacket situation.

    For what it's worth, 1060 is not a shallow hardening steel, the higher maganese content determines this in 10xx series steels.

    I would be interested to see if there is any micro-cracking in 5160 blades quenched in water. Not saying there will be, I've never thought of using water with 5160 before.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    NY state
    Posts
    11,979
    Brine - the salt is there to break up the vapour barrier which it does fairly violently.That in turn makes for a faster quench.
    Metallurgy recently has become micro-alloying. Standard alloys can be changed significantly by adding a pinch of this and a pinch of that !!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •