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Thread: 8Cr13MoV

  1. #1

    8Cr13MoV


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    Can any of you guys on here give me some pro's and con's on 8Cr13MoV. Also in comparison to other steels. Thanks.

  2. #2
    All in all it is a very capable steel. You would really have to examine every steel property individually to pull apart how it stack up against other steels, but bottom line is that it has no real weaknesses (talking about stainless steels only). It takes a good edge, but is not as abrasion resistant as VG-10 let alone S30V. Edgestability is good, meaning you can thin out the edge quite a bit without getting a nasty surprise. If you are talking about the Byrd series, the 8C13MoV is somewhat unique as it is run a roughly a point harder than comparable steels, which probably shows up in the edgestability.

    Given the choice, I would prefer S30V, VG-10, ZDP-189, but I wouldn't be (or given that I own a knife with it: I am not) unhappy with it (and yes, I am somewhat of a steel snob). Considering the price of the knifes that this steel is usually found in, it is really excellent stuff. IMHO, much, much better than low grade stainless steels like the 420 series.

  3. #3
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    HoB summed it up well. It will lose its edge much quicker than higher grade steels, and I've found it do be slightly more prone to corrosion in my early Byrd knives (Haven't seen this as much in my Tenacious, no idea why, I might do controlled testing in the future).

    I've found it to be among the easiest steels to sharpen. If I'm breaking down a lot of cardboard boxes at work and notice the edge dulling, it will respond much better to something like being stropped on cardboard than S30V would.

    Compared to other steels used in the 40$ and below price range it's one of my favorites. 13C26 is another good one.

  4. #4
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    8Cr13MoV is a Chinese-made steel. Spyderco calls it "similar to Aus-8 in its properties, performance and function". I would call that an expert assessment from people I trust.

    There have been comments that some of the Byrd knives are hardened to HRC 61. I tend to think this is not the common hardness.

    My Byrd Flight measured at 59.
    Gunmike1 had two Byrds that measured 58 and 60.

    Sounds to me like the common hardness for 8Cr13MoV is 58-60, which is also the listed hardness for several Benchmade blades in AUS8.

    I've not had time to do any of my own edge retention testing. So, I'll stick to Spyderco's own assessment "similar to AUS8".

  5. #5
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    My Byrd is 61 Rc.

  6. #6
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    8Cr13MoV is a chinese copy of AUS8 so it's pretty much the same but a lower quality version.

    The grade is as good as the people making it, this is a grade that pretty much any chinese steel mill can make and I would suspect that the quality and consistency varies with the source used.

    The lack of consistency from batch to batch could be a reason for the different HRC-levels you all have. With wide composition tolerances the steel can look very different from batch to batch.

  7. #7
    I tested hard my G10 Meadowlark with various test, but it blunted only during cutting some thick cardboard... It takes and hold better edge, than some CRKT's with AUS8.

    Cheap, but good - as a chinese steel can be.

  8. #8
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    Razor,

    How do you know that it is a copy of AUS8? By comparing the properties or do you work in the steel industry?

    How do you know that it is lower quality than AUS8?

    The reason I ask, is that the Chinese have become one of the biggest if not the biggest steel supplier in the world not based upon price alone but on price, quality and delivery ability. My information comes from a variety of sources in regard to steel as a commodity. They don't discuss single steel types but the overall industry.

    Thanks

  9. #9
    I got the hardness values as stated earlier with some 8Cr13MoV. I like the steel much better than my CRKT AUS-8 blades (56-57 RC), as it sharpens up much beter and holds that edge a bit longer. I also like the quality you get in the Byrds, not to mention their really low price. It may be made in China, but it is a good steel in an inexpensive blade that is run nice and hard, and the locks on mine have been very secure. Most knives in the Byrd's price range seem to run their steels softer and end up being much more burr prone in my experience.

    Mike

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by brownshoe View Post
    Razor,

    How do you know that it is a copy of AUS8? By comparing the properties or do you work in the steel industry?

    How do you know that it is lower quality than AUS8?

    The reason I ask, is that the Chinese have become one of the biggest if not the biggest steel supplier in the world not based upon price alone but on price, quality and delivery ability. My information comes from a variety of sources in regard to steel as a commodity. They don't discuss single steel types but the overall industry.

    Thanks
    We know it is a clone of AUS-8 because Mr. Sal Glesser who is the owner/chief designer of Spyderco specifically says that the steel performs like AUS-8 multiple times in both this forum, the official spyderco forum, and (I believe) one of his catalogues as well (though it may be his website).

    This is after through both usage experience and testing done by Spyderco.

    (he originally thought it was 440C, but after using it noticed it performed differently from 440C, that's why the earliest Byrd knives say 440C)

  11. #11
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    How's that Vex workin out for ya TJROJAY??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunmike1 View Post
    I got the hardness values as stated earlier with some 8Cr13MoV. I like the steel much better than my CRKT AUS-8 blades (56-57 RC), as it sharpens up much beter and holds that edge a bit longer. I also like the quality you get in the Byrds, not to mention their really low price. It may be made in China, but it is a good steel in an inexpensive blade that is run nice and hard, and the locks on mine have been very secure. Most knives in the Byrd's price range seem to run their steels softer and end up being much more burr prone in my experience.

    Mike
    I've not finished the comparison yet, but in a manila rope cutting test I compared a KaBar Large Dozier in AUS8 that measured 59 HRC against my new Byrd Flight in 8Cr13MoV that also measured 59 HRC.

    I've only run one set of cuts, but so far I don't think I see a difference in edge retention.

    Test technique is explained here:
    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...17&postcount=2

    I agree with you that the Byrd 8Cr13MoV is very decent steel in an inexpensive knife.

  13. #13
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    It's an excellent steel -especially in Spyderco's Tenacious folder.

    Very tough for a stainless and if reprofiled and sharpened with a medium grit stone (eg. Lansky diamond hones) and then stropped to remove the burr, it takes a superb long lasting edge. Out of the box from Spyderco it isn't sharpened very well, but if reprofiled and stropped, it is one hell of a knife.

    Personally, I prefer it to VG-10 (seems over-rated to me), but falls short of S30V. Better than production heat-treated AUS-8 in this particular folder.

  14. #14
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    I don't take spyderco's word on steels for four reasons. First, they released their original run of 440V with an ill-advised heat treatment. They were suprised with the chipping and changed the heat treat forumla. Second, they released their first run of ZDP knives w/o testing the corrosion resistance. They were suprised with some of the unexpected corrosion. Third, ATS-55 a "special" steel that turned out to be a "bargain" steel that was dropped as soon as supplies ran out. It was neither as good as the ATS34 it was supposed to be equivalent to nor as good as the AUS-8 it replaced. Fourth, as you state, they were selling a knife thinking it was 440C and didn't even know their supplier was actually giving them 8Cr13MoV. For their higher end line, Spyderco is a steel junky for anything stainless, but they are not steel experts. For their lower end line, it seemed they didn't even know what steel they were selling and didn't figure it out until the performance of production knives showed them what it was. By the way, 440C is a "better" steel than AUS-8.

    Razor seems to know something about the steel, that's why I asked him how he knows it is a clone of AUS8 (i.e. a copy) and how he knows it is inferior to AUS8.

  15. #15
    Thanks for all that info.
    Just want everyone to know that I received my VEX. It seems like a very well put together knife, I haven't used it much to comment on the steel. Remember this is my first knife so I have nothing to compare it to.

  16. #16
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    First thing: Does the knife what you´ve expected it to do and does the edge last long enough during your works?

    If so: Buy another knife just to see, if there really is a difference between steel grades .

    If not: Tell what happened and let´s see.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by knarfeng View Post
    I've not finished the comparison yet, but in a manila rope cutting test I compared a KaBar Large Dozier in AUS8 that measured 59 HRC against my new Byrd Flight in 8Cr13MoV that also measured 59 HRC.

    I've only run one set of cuts, but so far I don't think I see a difference in edge retention.

    Test technique is explained here:
    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...17&postcount=2

    I agree with you that the Byrd 8Cr13MoV is very decent steel in an inexpensive knife.

    That is impressive hardness on that Kabar Dozier. My only experience with AUS-8 is with CRKT's at 56-57 RC, so that is probably why it has been so bad for me with burring. At 59 RC a piece I'd imagine AUS-8 performs much better than my CRKT's. It makes sense that at the same hardness AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV would perform very similar.

    Mike

  18. #18
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    I don't take spyderco's word on steels for four reasons. First, they released their original run of 440V with an ill-advised heat treatment. They were suprised with the chipping and changed the heat treat forumla. Second, they released their first run of ZDP knives w/o testing the corrosion resistance. They were suprised with some of the unexpected corrosion. Third, ATS-55 a "special" steel that turned out to be a "bargain" steel that was dropped as soon as supplies ran out. It was neither as good as the ATS34 it was supposed to be equivalent to nor as good as the AUS-8 it replaced. Fourth, as you state, they were selling a knife thinking it was 440C and didn't even know their supplier was actually giving them 8Cr13MoV. For their higher end line, Spyderco is a steel junky for anything stainless, but they are not steel experts. For their lower end line, it seemed they didn't even know what steel they were selling and didn't figure it out until the performance of production knives showed them what it was. By the way, 440C is a "better" steel than AUS-8.

    I don't take spyderco's word on steels for four reasons. First, they released their original run of 440V with an ill-advised heat treatment. They were suprised with the chipping and changed the heat treat forumla.
    And you know this how? Were you working there? That's the only way you could know as it's proprietary information and always has been. Are you just generally speaking about when all the users worked with crucible and came up with a limit of rc 57 as a fix, and crucible put their money behind 420V, which wasn't accepted by production companies in general. There have been only two production companies that have used 420V/S90V in production runs so far. Know which ones they are? Crucible left S60V to wither on the vine and have stopped producing it. Are you going to blame that too on spyderco?

    Second, they released their first run of ZDP knives w/o testing the corrosion resistance
    Bullshit, just plain bullshit. More of your childish made up stories about spyderco. Brownshoe, have you quit beating your wife yet?

    It was neither as good as the ATS34 it was supposed to be equivalent to nor as good as the AUS-8 it replaced.
    Your opinion or do you have any facts?

    For their higher end line, Spyderco is a steel junky for anything stainless, but they are not steel experts. For their lower end line, it seemed they didn't even know what steel they were selling and didn't figure it out until the performance of production knives showed them what it was
    I suppose you are the steel expert here and no one in spyderco knows anything. They didn't know anything untill performance showed them what they had? That's a real stretch there to make it come out your way.

    Sal has personally explainedwhat happened on the forums, and in print in an article. You must have missed that I guess. Perhaps you might go back and do some research before opening your mouth and letting your typical anti spyderco b******t just fall out and splat on the floor.

    Brownshoe, the last several times you have done these trollish attacks you have really showed just how little you really know about the things you talk about. Joe

  19. #19
    Hi TJROJAY,

    There is very litle to go on. Spyderco began listing 8Cr13MoV on the blades of its byrd brand models a couple of years ago. Perhaps Spyderco was the first company to actually do a chemical analysis on the steel. Before that, all companies making knives in China just listed "440" on their blades or nothing at all. Now there are many that are beginning to list the actual steels being used in the blades.

    In CATRA lab tests at Spyderco, 8Cr13MoV edge retention was in the area of AUS-8. The steel held thin edge angles quite well and would perform at a fairly hard Rc. Corrosion resistance was not as good as AUS-8. AUS-8 will get sharper as the steel has a very homogenous grain structure and the foundry, Aichi in Japan, does a very good job at refinining.

    Thanx for the defense Joe, Brownshoe is just being Brownshoe. He wouldn't take Spyderco's word for much of anything. He's quite bright and has much knowledge, but his dislike for Spyderco is great. We just agree to disagree.

    sal

  20. #20
    is the generic 440 similar to the 8Cr13MoV? Your steel chart does show almost the same composition as AUS8, which I prefer to the too-high-imo chrome content of the 440 series.

    and I'm ordering up an frn robin, my G10 Cara Cara was a very good work knife... until I took it apart and played with it on the drill press >_> <_<

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