paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

[Bill Hoffman]

Richard,
I've used toothpaste (Crest is the best) as a furniture buffing paste in a previous
life as a Furniture Repairman and Refinisher. Works great on water stains.

Haven't yet used it as polish on the paper wheels.

Bill

[richard j]

i was talking to ken onion a while back and he told me to get some tormek paste and give it a try but only buff the burr side. he said it gives you a real toothy edge. i'll have to see if a buddy has some left from when he used to use a tormek for sharpening before getting a set of wheels for his wood chisels. he still uses the tormek for working up the burr but finishes off the edge with the slotted wheel.

[richard j]

i have posted this before but i'll post it again. make sure to keep the slots cleaned out on the buffing wheel. this is a good idea if you want to switch to a finer grit compound after using the medium grit. a hacksaw blade works good for this.

[Rider675]

I bought a cold steel magnum kukri machete, ive got 6 different angles on the edge trying to find the original. Can the wheels contact large edge like that? I remember someone saying you cant sharpen scandi grinds, maybe this is the same problem.

[richard j]

the wheels can only do v edges just so wide so no to a scandi on the grit wheel but you can use the slotted wheel to buff any edge. if i do a scandi edge i use my belt sander to work up the burr and finish it off on the slotted wheel.

that machete would work much better with a convex edge and be easier to maintain with the slotted wheel. do you have a belt sander?

[Rider675]

I think i'll be stuck with a file on this one, that's what i'll use in the bush so i'll get some experience at least.
Thanks

[richard j]

rider, send me an email with your number and i'll give you a call. i have a few methods that work better than a file for khuks to work up a burr by hand. then you can buff with the slotted wheel to finish off the edge.

[TheBishop]

Just want to add from my learning curve on Khuks and hawksbills and such from my playing around with them on these wheels.

I recently sharpened all my khukris, including several Cold Steel various metals to shaving sharp on the gritted stone/paper wheel combo.
Just had a batch of small hawksbills come in yesterday and knocked them out as well.

I don't use the grit wheel too often, but for recurves and such I find it the perfect tool.

I think one of the reasons is that I work it on top, with the wheel going away from me.
Standing over it, the entire shape is layed out over the wheel with me standing over it, so I can align and move the blade keeping it at the right angle and perp to the wheel, moving the blades according to shape as I go across the wheel.
Also, I do not have to mentally picture the shape in my head, its all by eye.
Even a large khukri works out, even though longer than the setup, the curve towards the front moves the handle away from the other wheel and you clear it.
Long blades and obtuse recurves do really well on the flat of the wheel as there is enough metal real estate in the curves.

on the small hawksbills, exact same concept, but I work them on the wheel's corner/edge for lack of real estate. Bur up lightening fast, and again, you pick your angle, see the pattern, and move the blade keeping it aligned perp to the wheel.
repeat on the slotted's edge and they are good to go.

Just an addition, I had a beat up shun bread knife the other day as well from a client, chipped/pitted to hell.
Took the flat side to the gritted wheel, at 0 degrees basically and drew it across the wheel.
Built up a good bur inside the scallops, then flipped it, then removed the bur on slotted wheel on its edge, letting it do its work.
Repeated process and though the scallops lost a bit of depth, it was not to any detriment, and came out paper slicing smooth with all the chips gone, looking like new.
Granted, this bread knife was beat up, and had rolling hills between the scallops, not teeth, but have successfully used this technique on a number of serrated blades, including those laser cut serrated Cold Steel knives.

Trial and error method

[richard j]

khuks should never be done on the grit wheel. a proper khuk edge is convexed. you can finish off the edge on the slotted wheel. a convex edge on a khuk cuts much better than a v edge.

as for serrations, you do not grind the backside of serrations or you will grind them down to nothing in no time. a serration can be touched up on the corner of the slotted wheel. if a customer sends me a knife with a partial serrated edge i usually touch it up for free since it can be done in a few seconds.

when working on top, its easier to see what is going on if you have the wheel rotating to you. its easier to keep the edge even since you can see how the blade is making contact with the wheel. you can set the blade down on the corner closest to the tip and put a nick in the edge real easy and when the other side of the wheel comes by you end up with a real wide spot in that section.

[TheBishop]

Richard,
not saying I'm right, just saying what seems to work for me.

I'm usually a belt guy, but find the grit wheel does well for me on khukris, even if it is a V edge, I'm guessing that is what they come with at the cold steel factory.
Convex would be ideal, but not happy for some reason playing with them on the belts.
I wonder if there's a way to get to a middle ground ... Kinda like a convex edge is built on a fixed system like WEPS, then rolled with leather.
Wonder if a stiff sisal wheel can do the same? ... just thinking out loud.

On the serrateds, I don't go heavy on the flat, very light to a bur.
Bur comes off on the slotted.
This was not for touchup, this was seriously bad chips/pits ... I'm finding more and more Shuns pitting badly.
Normally, I just do them on the slotted, or even a spiral or sisal wheel, same idea, more play room.

I trialed the serrated off reading:
"Here is a note from Carrol Smith, retired owner of Razor Sharp Edgemaking Systems, the premium maker of paper wheels:

Serrated knives: Some knives have such small serrations, that I do not know how to sharpen, except to treat them like a plain straight blade!...
Normal serrated blades, such as Spyderco, I sharpen as follows. I run the flat side of the blade, usually one pass is enough, across the flat of the Gritted wheel, hardly any pressure at all, and almost flat against the wheel. This gives me "burr" on the serrated side, both on the points and in the valleys. I then draw the serrated side, (with the burr), across the corner of the slotted wheel, very gently, then I gently draw the flat side across the face of the slotted wheel. I now have the serrated portion of the blade quite sharp, with no damage to either wheel! Right or wrong this method has been working for me for about 12 years!

Carrol Smith"

For me the wheel going away is comfy and I feel I'm in more control, I'm guessing everyone's MMV.

I got to say, it worked. Just forcing a bur, removing it with the slotted, and it got to the pitted portions.

[cziv]

This may have been covered but I'm planning on buying the Razor paper wheels. I've been watching a lot of videos on them and they look awesome.

I don't have a bench grinder and don't want to spend a ton of money on one. I didn't read this huge thread but could someone steer me to an affordable motor to mount the wheels on. This would be a dedicated grinder - used only for knife sharpening.

[richard j]

i put a link to one at lowes in my tips page. its variable speed which is the best way to run the wheels. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=608864 i should add that i would remove the light and not even use it. the light needs to come from above and be slightly behind the blade.

cziv, you'll have to come down and let me teach you how to properly sharpen knives on the wheels. i'll even teach you how to do a convex an edge on a belt sander.

[cziv]

i put a link to one at lowes in my tips page. its variable speed which is the best way to run the wheels. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=608864 i should add that i would remove the light and not even use it. the light needs to come from above and be slightly behind the blade.

cziv, you'll have to come down and let me teach you how to properly sharpen knives on the wheels. i'll even teach you how to do a convex an edge on a belt sander.

Thanks Richard. I bookmarked your Tips page and it looks like a visit to the master might be in order once I buy this stuff. I have way more than the cost of this gear in benchstones, strops, aligner kits, compounds and still get mediocre edges.

[richard j]

i need to check and see if i have the link to the tips page on my website. i think mike is going to add the link to my paper wheel thread and the tips page to the razorsharp website.

i hear from a lot of guys that spend big money on guided systems and such only to end up getting a set of the wheels.

before you set up your wheels, give me a call if you still have my number or send me yours and i'll give you a call. i want to make sure you have them set up so you can sharpen with them a lot easier. make sure when you come down to make sure its a nice day out and not rainy or real cold.

[cziv]

Here it is Richard http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-for-beginners

[richard j]

Here it is Richard http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-for-beginners

i know that thread is here on the forum . i posted the link to my tips page for you above.

its been a while since i was on that section of my website and i was not sure if i had the tips posted there but it is. i just added to the tips page here and on my website.

[richard j]

i just talked to mike who is now the owner of razorsharp. he said that the way i do serrated knives is the correct way and that the way his dad did serrated blades is actually wrong. he is going to post my instructions on his website when he gets a chance. i posted how to do serrated blades in my tips page.

[scotchleaf]

My grit wheel has gotten shiny in areas - is this too much wax, or do I need to regrit the wheel? - I just got them and I think I may have been applying too much pressure.

[OHALLUM]

If it is just shiny in spots and no paper showing, then it is just the wax buildup. It should still sharpen that way, or take a small toothbrush style metal brush and rough up the wax a bit. If the paper is showing thru then you may need to re-grit. No need to apply a lot of pressure on the grit wheel. Slow and easy is best so as not to build up too much heat on your blade.

[richard j]

when the grit is wore down you will see spots that look like the slotted wheel did when you first got it. just do what ohallum said and you should be fine. every now and then its a good idea to brush off the old wax which will remove any metal chips stuck in the grit. then reapply clean wax. i rub the wax into the wheel with my thumb which seems to make it work a lot better. just apply it in small sections and work it in.