I would like to make a 1/4 inch knife out of 1095, but all I can find is 1075. Is there much of a difference between the two in terms of function and heat treat?
1075 will be far easier to HT than 1095. The resulting blade will be an excellent blade.
It is better to die fighting evil than to live under it.
1095 is very easy to find you must not be looking on the right places..
look in the suppliers lists above in the
***Newbies , Good info Here*** thread..
personally I'd use the 1095 and no less than that in carbon content with the low alloy 10xx's steels. with the right oil or water/brine it's not bad steel to heat treat,, if you are in this for the long haul you'll want to learn to heat treat all types of steel anyway..
if you want to step up a notch and have ease in the HT too,, try using O1 for your carbon steel
1075 should work fine. thats all i use for making my knives. it is easy to heat treat and i do mine with a cutting torch but everything has to be set right to get a good heat treat. here is what brian jones said about the chopper i made for him out of 1075 http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=609189
Dan - if folks aren't using proper methods for heat treating these steels, what advantages should they expect to see when using 1095 or O1? I think I've been pretty clear on my position, I just want to get the other side of the story.
most high carbon steels are OK for use IMHO but still are depending on what you want out of a blade... it's all been said with in these forums many more than a few times.. whats the best steel for knife making... there isn't ONE
this subject could be and always will be a can of worms... so this is my Opinion and only that, from one that does use all these steels for the right tool being made...
in talking about the 10XX's, more carbon is better, because it's a simple steel,
as you say,, proper methods for heat treating is Key, if not with more carbon it should make it more forgiving HT wise for those that don't do a good job in the HT .
O1 is very hard to mess up the heat treat it's one of the reasons it's used as a common tool steel along with, it's less apt to rust like the 10xx's not that it won't, it just stands up better rust wise for another reason..
the alloying don't hurt it either edge wise.. you won't get a humdinger of a hamon with it..
I do believe if the guys have not trying other steels ( comparing apples to apples with correct heat treating on each ) then compare, they really can't say a lot about what they have not used until then .
I won't say one steel is the best you can use but I will say,, steel is like a tool , the right tool for the right job..
for me I'll use 1095 for a chopper IE: a machete , being a spring steel that steel only makes since to me..
for a good old hunting knife that you can sharpen with an inexpensive stone in the field with, O1 would be my choice.
for guys that don't like to take care of there equipment but still wants a top notch Blade I use 154CM, HTed right with a cryo
it's just plain hard to beat.. though it will take more to sharpen it with the use of a better stone..
all the steels have their alkyls heel,, did I spell that right?
I can't spell worth a damn
Here are two links that, if read generally, will let you see what differences there are in the steels you are discussing.
Hi Dan - the problem I have with 1095 is the lack of maganese vs lower carbon 10xx steels which promotes grain growth in over heating. In addition, this combined with the higher carbon content makes for a steeper time/temperature curve and doesn't lend the steel to quenching in most non-professional media other than water or brine. If the 1095 had higher maganese like 1090 then I'd think it would be a lot easier to DIY for a beginner, regardless of the higher carbon content.
I'm biased against O1, so I'll leave that one for another day :P
Dan, your spelling is fine, your typing is bad
I use both an oven and O/A for short blades in 1095 with good results.. anything 5" and up , it's the oven..
you mention over heating I'm sure you know that's bad for retaining the carbon content don't do that
as I mentioned if the guys are in it for the long haul and want to get well rounded in time, he'll end up learning and getting what's needed to do the job for the steels he wants to use.... by rounded, I mean hopefully picking steels for different uses .. I know for some it's getting picky but in turn it's fun learning and expanding all the time.. and it also gives the customer more to think about in what he wants from the maker and why....
man I hate to see someone not like O1, I started using that well over 30 some odd years ago...
like I said this is only my take on what I do and why.. I hope it helps some of the guys.. if I'm wrong in anything I say I'll stand corrected
you can use Brownells tuf-quench for oil quenching 1095 you can buy it by the Gal,,but you'll need to heat it up first to ~ 130 F this makes the quench a bit faster, if used cold you can very well miss the timing with this quench medium. this quench is boarder line in quenching speed for 1095..
dan, its been working fine for me all these years.
1075 is GREAT for swords.
Unless someone has a kiln with the ability to do a controlled soak at austentizing temperature I would advise against anything hypereutechtic or high alloy. you simply will not gt all of the goodies into solution where they will do you any good (see Kevin Cashen's pinned threads on steels at the top of the main page)
1070 to 1084 steels are great for simple equipment
I'm beating myself in the head here I know,,
I understand peoples comfort points in steels . I just want the newbies to understand you don't have to settle for one steel, more over to my point, we've seen a lot of : this is the best there is, in round about words,, I do like to see, it works for me.
.. customers can be very impressionable and that concerns me.. it's like a family doctor,, I want one fairly rounded , not the new kid in town that can just set bones real well, I'll get sick with more of an assortment of illnesses then that of different broken bones.. that might be a bad analogy but the best that I can come up with right now .
for me I want to let the customer pick his steel though, I will point out a few details in them if he's concerned about it and at times they are.. this way I don't have all my eggs in one basket being a little more, lets say, widened in the field.. and by not limiting myself in the customers eyes.,, sort to say.
if we WANT more customers it helps to be able to offer more options to them.. JMHO
Page be very careful in saying, "you just can't" .. there are those that can do pretty good things with very little to work with..
when you need a 5 min soak you can do that with O/A that's the reason for the maximum blade lengths I use in that situation . to make sure you get a good soak..
I do agree 1080/85 is a great starter steel for new guys cheap and very easy to work and treat.
there are two ways to learn and do things , just starting you can go exactly by the way something is written and have reasonable results that is a great was to start, but you also can in time read the steel in a heat
it might say to you a little more heat please or a little unless , it depends on the day if you do it that way , temperature in you shop, the humidly that day ? going by the book is the safe way to get good results with the masses for sure. what I'm saying is you may be able to get a good HT with a 4 min soak if the conditions are right but for most to be safe he'll go for the 5 min's
Kevin Knows what I'm trying to say, I can't type well enough to explain my points I guess
It's certainly true O1 (or any hypereutectoid) needs to be dealt with in a particular way and it's certainly true doing it is a lot easier with salt tanks, a kiln, or a temp. controlled forge. It is also true most folks who understand the necessity of what has to be done with O1 and who don't have those tools, won't use the steel... but none of that has anything to do with whether it can be done.
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