Have you ever used a knife in a real self-defense situation against another person?

[Zigosity]

I stopped it from happening to me.

Let's just say if you remember the part in Crocodile Dundee where Hogan says, "That's not a knife; this is a knife," you'd get a good idea of what happened. On the same token that you don't bring a knife to a gun fight, you also don't bring a boxcutter to a knife fight.

I dissolved the situation before anything happened.

I was in an identical situation - someone on a metro pulled a box cutter on me and told me to empty my pockets.

I didn't pull my EDC. I gave him my phone and my money.

Of course, my EDC at the time was a partially-serrated black SOG Flash 1 - not exactly a SD blade if I've ever seen one - but even if I had been carrying the larger blade I had at the time (Byrd Cara-Cara), I wouldn't have pulled that on him, either. I live in Canada, so I'm already on sketchy ground even carrying this stuff around on me in public. That aside, I really have no desire to get into a fight of any kind if I can avoid it - a dirty, nasty knife fight where both parties are almost guaranteed to get hurt least of all. In the end, I got off rather well - he didn't take my whole wallet, only the money in it, and he completely missed my iPod and the computer I had in the bag I was carrying around (why he didn't grab that too, I don't know. I guess he was just as nervous as I was and just didn't notice it).

Now I carry a little Boker Sub-Claw in the watch pocket of my jeans for life-or-death situations - if I'm on the ground and someone is literally trying to kill me, I will bring that out. Or if the same is happening to someone else, of course. Otherwise, if I can diffuse the situation by giving the aggressor what they want... hell, why not? It's not like any of my possessions are worth more than my life, or the lives of others.

-Zigo

[AKnife]

How did I "attack" anyone? Did you even read my reply. specifically the part where I say I have been amused by everyone's comments and I welcome them regardless of what they are?

Just as no one is "attacking" me by writing those things, I am not "attacking" anyone else when I reply with a contrary opinion. Am I?

Also I did not say anyone "insulted me". Where do you read that? I did mention that someone compared me to a kid, because well, they did. I was not insulted or offended by it however, nor was I at any of the other comments.

Your response seemed like an attempt to attack the people that responded. When you say you are "amused" by comments that makes it seem as if you are not taking this topic seriously, and you're just trying to stir the pot. No one here is trying to insult you, no one compared you to a kid, but they did post about visiting school's to talk with children.

What is your reasoning behind asking this question? Is it just for your amusement, or are you actually trying to have an intelligent discussion about this topic?

[3mptin3ss]

Ya maybe for some people! Not me! I'd rather die FREE,then be left to rot behind bars!

your not dying free if your at the mercy of whoever it is who is about to end your life



ill take a couple a years of playing cards and reading books over being run through with a blade or letting some drunk pile drive me into the hood of his car in the parking lot.

yes, bad things happen to people in prison, but many people also serve very uneventful sentences and are left alone. a guy with no record who got busted for defending himself probobly isnt going to go to a maximum security prison, or get a lengthy sentence. for example the subway vigilante who shot 4 people served less than a year on an illegal firearms charge.

[rickynz]

not a knife, a few years ago a stranger randomly walked into my house high on methamphetamine, a builders claw hammer was the closet weapon to me and I used it to defend myself

[Sep]

I was in an identical situation - someone on a metro pulled a box cutter on me and told me to empty my pockets.

I didn't pull my EDC. I gave him my phone and my money.

Of course, my EDC at the time was a partially-serrated black SOG Flash 1 - not exactly a SD blade if I've ever seen one - but even if I had been carrying the larger blade I had at the time (Byrd Cara-Cara), I wouldn't have pulled that on him, either. I live in Canada, so I'm already on sketchy ground even carrying this stuff around on me in public. That aside, I really have no desire to get into a fight of any kind if I can avoid it - a dirty, nasty knife fight where both parties are almost guaranteed to get hurt least of all. In the end, I got off rather well - he didn't take my whole wallet, only the money in it, and he completely missed my iPod and the computer I had in the bag I was carrying around (why he didn't grab that too, I don't know. I guess he was just as nervous as I was and just didn't notice it).

Now I carry a little Boker Sub-Claw in the watch pocket of my jeans for life-or-death situations - if I'm on the ground and someone is literally trying to kill me, I will bring that out. Or if the same is happening to someone else, of course. Otherwise, if I can diffuse the situation by giving the aggressor what they want... hell, why not? It's not like any of my possessions are worth more than my life, or the lives of others.

-Zigo

One other thing to consider: Say you got into a knife fight over a cell phone and $100 bucks; total value $200. Unless you're extremely good and extremely lucky, you WILL get cut. If you got slashed over the face and needs reconstructive surgery (or worse, lost an eye), you will still have to pay for insurance deductible. Some people's deductible is "only" $500, others can be $3000, and you haven't even factored lost work. This all assumes that you win and get out alive, and have insurance coverage to begin with.

If all they want is money, it's not worth fighting. But, if they intend to harm you or your loved ones, then you fight with every inch of your strength and resolve.

[Zigosity]

One other thing to consider: Say you got into a knife fight over a cell phone and $100 bucks; total value $200. Unless you're extremely good and extremely lucky, you WILL get cut. If you got slashed over the face and needs reconstructive surgery (or worse, lost an eye), you will still have to pay for insurance deductible. Some people's deductible is "only" $500, others can be $3000, and you haven't even factored lost work. This all assumes that you win and get out alive, and have insurance coverage to begin with.

If all they want is money, it's not worth fighting. But, if they intend to harm you or your loved ones, then you fight with every inch of your strength and resolve.

Good argument, but I break it by living in a country with free healthcare :P. For all the people out there who don't, though, it's a very good point to consider.

[James0723]

One other thing to consider: Say you got into a knife fight over a cell phone and $100 bucks; total value $200. Unless you're extremely good and extremely lucky, you WILL get cut. If you got slashed over the face and needs reconstructive surgery (or worse, lost an eye), you will still have to pay for insurance deductible. Some people's deductible is "only" $500, others can be $3000, and you haven't even factored lost work. This all assumes that you win and get out alive, and have insurance coverage to begin with.

If all they want is money, it's not worth fighting. But, if they intend to harm you or your loved ones, then you fight with every inch of your strength and resolve.

Well you have to consider that Zigosity's attacker was welding a boxcutter which can really only be used to slash and create superficial lacerations. One only needs protect their neck as they counter the slower slashing motions with quicker, more devastating *stabs*. And if slashed on the face with a boxcutter you would hardly need reconstructive surgery, as the slash would be very thin and girls like scars anyway.

But I admit if I was in Zigosity's situation I probably would have done the same thing just because of the surprise. No one ever expects for someone to randomly pull a boxcutter on you, and he may have been worried that he could not deploy his SOG knife fast enough.

Can you give us any more details Zigosity? How exactly did this situation unfold?

mike i have to agree with you a whole heartly..
i was a pacifist church going youth tell i was betten badly several times
i learned to fight back the hard way ...
there is no such thing as a fair fight ...
and many agressers will hurt you if they can...
have i used a tool to defend my self or others ?-
it is a highly personal decisson to use a tool to hurt another..

there consquenses for such actions.. and many are not nice.
if it is not in war zone ..best is to retire away...
in a civlian location others words do not justify your attack
untell it is an attack on your person you should leave
to defend another under attack who is unable to is honarable..
use of a tool there is choice also
i would consiter mace and stun guns tools also
police use them ... and some times wrongly
that is were it gets very personal
and subject to others judgement not your own..

now i have to wander why the OP wanted to ask
is it for morbid admusement only if so -1
or is there a study and questioning of if others have ...
i would like the OP to address what his reasons are for asking realy are

dave - usn ss ret
DBF

Wise words Dave, and in answer to your question my reasons for asking are just that I'm interested in knives. Using knives for defense and fighting is a big part of some cultures, especially Jamaica's, and I believe it's a subject that needs to be discussed more and brought into the open.

[hardheart]

Otherwise, if I can diffuse the situation by giving the aggressor what they want... hell, why not?

Guess it depends on your sense of responsibility, and if you feel capable of doing something to stop the criminal. I hope you at least reported it after, so maybe the police could try to stop the guy from doing it to someone else. I wasn't a police officer for very long, and my role in the military shouldn't involve such action, but I'd like to think I would do more than hand over my things when faced with a boxcutter. But, not everyone can or should attempt the same actions when faced with such dangers.

[Dekz]

Most people won't discuss such matters in detail on a public forum because of potential liability issues.

+1 for sure.

The statute of limitations on murder... there is none.

Uhhh, we're talking self defense here, not murder.

I seriously doubt that BladeForums members are killing gangbangers in dark alleys and then burying the bodies.

I don't see any reason why people would need to keep these self defense stories a secret when I'm sure any legal ramifications have long passed.

[kozak6]

In response to some of the issues that were brought up about this post, I don't see what the big deal is about telling about using a knife in self-defense over the internet. As far as the "litigation danger" that doesn't seem realistic to me because I asked about self-defense, not using knives for crime. As far as I know self-defense isn't illegal, and even if it was the thought that there would be some kind of law enforcement agency monitoring these forums that would actually get a warrant to go to your ISP and find out who you are, then be able to get an arrest warrant for you over telling a story online that for all anyone knows could be BS seems laughable to me. Is that legally even possible to happen? What agency would be authorized to even attempt to do such a thing?

It's not active monitoring folks are worried about. It's that posting on a message board releases this stuff into the public domain. Everything you, I, and anyone else has ever posted is now out there, for the entire world to see.

If something unfortunate were to happen in the future, prior statements made on a message could potentially be troublesome if brought before a judge or jury.

Or, if a self defense situation went unreported for whatever reason, shouting the specifics of it to the world could eventually cause problems.

Also, the line between lawful and unlawful self defense is much finer than you think it is, especially depending on country, state, and local laws, and even more so in less weapon friendly areas.

Perhaps I should have posted in the tactical subforum but even with it being posted here I think that analogy totally fails.

That's probably a better place, but I disagree on the analogy.

Uhhh, we're talking self defense here, not murder.

Juries have been known to disagree.

[Flatlander1963]

Here's a story for all you Theoretical Knife Warriors.
If you stab someone in self defense he may die.
If you stab someone in self defense you will still be arrested and charged with aggravated assault.

So the story:
My best friend to this day was in a place called The Landing. It was a college student hangout with a lot of pool table. The place also attracted its share of locals as the beer was cold and cheap even then (mid-80s). So my buddy was walking to the bar to get some more beers and 4 local toughs made some comments and giggles about how he was dressed (peach polo button down, madras plaid shorts, and tassel loafers no socks...hey it was the 80s). Now my buddy walks back by with his new beer and gets some more comments. So he sends a blistering comment back over his shoulder. Now these four rednecks decide my buddy needs a little training for daring to call a spade a spade. How dare he not take their crap? So eventually he goes to the bathroom taking a different path and avoids the quartet. But, they follow him and the four attack him from behind hitting and knocking him in the pisser (sunken tile floor design, I called it the sewer) and then carried on stomping him while he was down with their cowboy boots.

Out comes the butterfly knife and my buddy stabs one of the quartet in the thigh twice. Now this ended all the stomping and fighting and any real interest in my friend. But the redneck almost died from blood loss and my buddy despite having been attached and stomped bloody got arrested and charged with aggravated assault. Fortunately, the charges were reduced to simple assault and the redneck recovered to only walk with a limp. No knife was ever located.

So bear in mind if you defend yourself and use a knife for any reason your likely going to face criminal charges that could land you in jail for a long time. If my buddy hadn’t used the knife he’d been a victim that got hurt very badly but that didn’t matter to the law…so be sure your ready for the all the consequence.

My best advice is to first avoid issues if possible. Then defend yourself if serious harm to yourself is a certainty and even then be prepared to hire a very good lawyer.

[LX_Emergency]

Either that.....or bury the ****** and make sure no-one finds him.

[The Mastiff]

Flatlander, did your friend try to get away, hide the knife or something that could have sparked that? You stated "no knife was ever located".

Why he was charged with anything I'm just not understanding. It seems like something is missing. Joe

[Charlie Mike]

I'd cremate the "client" before a burial anyday, and then grind up the bones to be dispersed a few ounces here n there.

[frontline29]

your not dying free if your at the mercy of whoever it is who is about to end your life



ill take a couple a years of playing cards and reading books over being run through with a blade or letting some drunk pile drive me into the hood of his car in the parking lot.

yes, bad things happen to people in prison, but many people also serve very uneventful sentences and are left alone. a guy with no record who got busted for defending himself probobly isnt going to go to a maximum security prison, or get a lengthy sentence. for example the subway vigilante who shot 4 people served less than a year on an illegal firearms charge.

Well my friend I don't think you have ever been to prison!
It's a place that I do not wish to visit again!
So yes I'd rather die free then be left to rot behind bars.

[Buffalohump]

I've carried a knife daily for almost 20 years and I've never had to use it in self-defence. I'm extremely grateful for that.

I believe you can avoid most potentially bad situations with a little common sense. That said, you cannot predict what may happen to you and I live in a country with a very high crime rate, so I always assume the worst when I'm on the street. Hey, call me paranoid, but I believe the threat that is spotted early is far less of a threat than the one you only see at the last moment.

I would really hate to pull my knife in self-defence. Not only would it be a very messy business, but if I got the attackers blood all over me, I would probably have to tested for HIV/AIDS, which is very prevalent out here.

But if it came down to defending my life or those of my family, I would use it, and if I had to face charges for doing that, well so be it.

If we do nothing in the face of attack for fear of being sued, then what the hell kind of 'freedom' is that?

[Flatlander1963]

Flatlander, did your friend try to get away, hide the knife or something that could have sparked that? You stated "no knife was ever located".

Why he was charged with anything I'm just not understanding. It seems like something is missing. Joe

No he didn't try to get away but he did hand off the knife to another friend for disposal. He got arrested cause somebody got stabbed and he was only getting the hell kicked out of him but he didn't end up having to go to the hospital (but would have if he hadn't done what he did). So you use deadly force in any situation short of immediate almost certain loss of life principally yours is risking that same situation.

Anyway that's the deal that happened with him.

[tyr_shadowblade]

I seriously doubt that BladeForums members are killing gangbangers in dark alleys and then burying the bodies.

But . . . there are dumpsters in those dark alleys.

[stabman]

I live in Canada, so I'm already on sketchy ground even carrying this stuff around on me in public.

No, you're not.
Re-read the laws if you think carrying a folder is "sketchy."

[mk77]

i only have one thing to add, amusing and a real self defence situation do not belong together. nothing funny about defending yourself, your family or any person for that matter.