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Thread: XHP Steel?

  1. #1
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    Question XHP Steel?


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    Can anyone tell me exactly what XHP steel is? My new Hinderer XM-18 has CTS-XHP marked on its blade. And now I see Spyderco is gonna make the Manix 2 in XHP steel. I'm sure this must some kind of new "super steel" but who makes it and what does it compare to? Anyone know its chemistry? Thanks in advance.
    "Knife Enthusiast"

  2. #2
    In short, people say it is "stainless powered D2"

    Also, Join USN and take a look at Ricks forum. He describes it well there.

    But so you don't have to wait:

    "Hello all....Sorry it has taken me awhile to get this announcement out there. I see some confusion because of some new marked XM's showing up at dealers...I ment to announce this befare they hit but oh well...

    As some of you know I have been playing around with the Carpenter steel CTS-XHP. It is a fantastic alloy that is pretty much stainless D-2 made via the powder method. I have had great results with it. That being said am I going to drop Duratech 20cv? No...The CTS-XHP is a addition to the XM-18 line...I'm not sure about the availability of the CTS-XHP...so at this time it may be a limited thing...This current batch of XM-18's are CTS-XHP and there will be another batch this year that will be CTS-XHP...I will be marking all of the XHP XM-18's with the CTS-XHP mark...I forgot to mark the early ones (doh!) so if you have received a new Gen III XM-18 in the past 3 weeks then it is CTS-XHP...but you will all start seeing the current marked ones! These may end up being more rare in the future depending on the steel availability (hint) If your XM-18 is not marked CTS-XHP and it was made before 3 weeks ago then it is Duratech 20cv....if you are the new owner of a CTS-XHP XM-18 you will be very happy with the steel!!If you have any questions let me know and I will be happy to clear up any confusion!

    I know alot of people have been asking why I used another steel for the XM-18's..well that is the great thing about being a custom knifemaker...I can change things up and use other materials and techniques when I want to ...and ultimatly the customer is the one who wins!

    As always, thanks so much for your support!!

    Rick Hinderer "
    Last edited by demtek9; 03-23-2010 at 09:42 PM.

  3. #3
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    Sounds like great stuff! Anyone know what the hardness level is?
    "Knife Enthusiast"

  4. #4
    Rick says the XM-18 is 59-60

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by demtek9 View Post
    In short, people say it is "stainless powered D2"

    Also, Join USN and take a look at Ricks forum. He describes it well there.

    But so you don't have to wait:

    "Hello all....Sorry it has taken me awhile to get this announcement out there. I see some confusion because of some new marked XM's showing up at dealers...I ment to announce this befare they hit but oh well...

    As some of you know I have been playing around with the Carpenter steel CTS-XHP. It is a fantastic alloy that is pretty much stainless D-2 made via the powder method. I have had great results with it. That being said am I going to drop Duratech 20cv? No...The CTS-XHP is a addition to the XM-18 line...I'm not sure about the availability of the CTS-XHP...so at this time it may be a limited thing...This current batch of XM-18's are CTS-XHP and there will be another batch this year that will be CTS-XHP...I will be marking all of the XHP XM-18's with the CTS-XHP mark...I forgot to mark the early ones (doh!) so if you have received a new Gen III XM-18 in the past 3 weeks then it is CTS-XHP...but you will all start seeing the current marked ones! These may end up being more rare in the future depending on the steel availability (hint) If your XM-18 is not marked CTS-XHP and it was made before 3 weeks ago then it is Duratech 20cv....if you are the new owner of a CTS-XHP XM-18 you will be very happy with the steel!!If you have any questions let me know and I will be happy to clear up any confusion!

    I know alot of people have been asking why I used another steel for the XM-18's..well that is the great thing about being a custom knifemaker...I can change things up and use other materials and techniques when I want to ...and ultimatly the customer is the one who wins!

    As always, thanks so much for your support!!

    Rick Hinderer "
    Out of curiousity can you tell us when this was posted? I got an XM-18 directly from Rick a few weeks ago and it's unmarked so I'm curious whether it's 20CV or CTS-XHP.

  6. #6

    xhp

    we have to credit the custom guys efforts for trying new alloys. ca'nt expect factories to commit a line to something that may be a total bomb. i'm still waiting on my duratech 20v from sog so i ca'nt espound on that alloy.

  7. #7
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    From Carpenter:
    Carpenter CTS-XHP Alloy (Micro-Melt® 440-XH® Alloy)

    (Nominal Analysis)
    1.60 C, 0.50 Mn, 0.40 Si, 16.00 Cr, 0.35 Ni, 0.80 Mo, 0.45 V, Bal. Fe

    Air hardening, high carbon, high chromium, corrosion resistant alloy which can be described as either a high hardness Type 440C stainless steel or a corrosion resistant D2 tool steel. Possesses corrosion resistance equivalent to Type 440C stainless but can attain a maximum hardness of 64 HRC, approaching that of D2 tool steel. Now available in strip product form.

    This proprietary alloy is in the Carpenter CTS™ family of alloys that offer superior edge retention and surface finish, an ability to be machined to a fine edge, and consistent heat-treatability from lot to lot. Consider CTS alloys for many blade applications including commercial food processing, paper processing, textile, packaging, recycling/refuse, kitchen knives, hand tools, scissors/shears, shaving razors, sport/hunting knives, ice skates, military/defense, law enforcement, salon blades and various surgical/medical applications.
    http://www.cartech.com/ssalloysprod.aspx?id=3710

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chackoc View Post
    Out of curiousity can you tell us when this was posted? I got an XM-18 directly from Rick a few weeks ago and it's unmarked so I'm curious whether it's 20CV or CTS-XHP.
    In Rick Hinderer's personal forum on the USN.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by demtek9 View Post
    In Rick Hinderer's personal forum on the USN.
    Forgive me for being a dummy but what is the USN? United States Navy? LOL! Or is it a forum?,,Thanks.
    "Knife Enthusiast"

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    Obama is America's first Affirmative Action president.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by demtek9 View Post
    In Rick Hinderer's personal forum on the USN.
    But do you know when it was posted. He says that if you received a knife "within the past 3 weeks" so I'm thinking if I got the knife within 3 weeks of his making that posting I would have the CTS blade steel rather than the 20CV.

    And USN is another knife forum but I believe you have to pay in order to view it. Or maybe that's just the for sale area? I believe it stands for usualsuspects.net but if you google USN and knife you'll come up with the right place.

  12. #12
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    As stated, an enhanced 440C or stainless D2,

    ...Bark River is testing some and Mike Stewart likened it to a stainless A2, finer grain and tougher then D2, but that's with his heat treatment and edge geometry.

    I think the problems Crucible had has driven makers to look elsewhere.

    But the price on this is not cheap.



    Big Mike

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
    I think the problems Crucible had has driven makers to look elsewhere.
    Big Mike
    What kind of problems are they having? I've not heard anything.
    "Knife Enthusiast"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vwb563 View Post
    What kind of problems are they having? I've not heard anything.
    LOL, you missed their disappearance (which I think was ~ a year ago) and their re-emergence. Bankruptcy reorganization. However, they've emerged and are supposedly shipping or at least taking orders for delivery of cutlery steel again.

    But Big Mike is right, I think lots of makers are looking elsewhere to supplement their supply sources.

  15. #15
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    I just got an XM-18 3.5" flipper directly from Rick 2 weeks ago and the blade is also marked with CTS-XHP.

    I was surprised when I opened the box as I was expecting 20v.

    I have been on Ricks forum on USN and it appears there may ultimately be some supply issues with the XHP steel.

    Rick has been talking to the manufacturer for some time about this steel and he decided to do a few limited runs with it, thus his desire to mark the steel on the blade, as he still plans on using the 20v for the XM-18.

    As was copied from his forum, he says the XHP is basically a D2 steel with more rust resistance, which should be hardened to 60-62 rockwell. It is designed as a more robust, hard use steel, which is fitting for the XM-18.

    I'm actually excited that I have the new steel and that it may end up being a limited quantity.

    Since receiving the knife, I have been using it quite regularly and the blade still feels as sharp as it did out of the box.

    I have not used 20v, but I have used S30v and D2. My preference is D2, with the exception of the rusting issue and the fact that D2 only gets a toothy edge for me.
    Joe

    "I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman" - Homer Simpson

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyz View Post

    ...it appears there may ultimately be some supply issues with the XHP steel.

    From what I understand, the issue is that Carpenter will only sell their steel in large quantites,

    ...like a minium order of $20,000 in any given thickness.




    That kind of policy will keep all but the largest knife companies out of the picture,

    ...hopefully this will change over time.



    Big Mike

  17. #17
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    Thanks Big Mike

    Pity as I am liking it a lot.

    At $20k minimum order it may be tough for all but the larger production knife companies to purchase, unless a few smaller ones pull their resources and buy as a group.
    Joe

    "I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman" - Homer Simpson

  18. #18
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    It's more like CPM154 in its properties. Should be a big hit for Spyderco when they take it up to 61-62 rc.

  19. #19
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    It should be closer to CPM D2. You might do a search in the Knifemaker's section . It will have smaller carbides than D2 and all the advatages of the powder metal steels like CPM - easier to sharpen ,tougher .

  20. #20
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    Not doubting you at all, but how did Hinderer and Dozier get their hands on some? Group buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
    From what I understand, the issue is that Carpenter will only sell their steel in large quantites,

    ...like a minium order of $20,000 in any given thickness.




    That kind of policy will keep all but the largest knife companies out of the picture,

    ...hopefully this will change over time.



    Big Mike

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