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Thread: VG-10 vs CM154 vs D2 in a EDC knife.

  1. #1

    VG-10 vs CM154 vs D2 in a EDC knife.


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    I am tied between the spyderco endura 4, benchmade grip and the benchmade 710 I like the looks of the benchmades a bit better but the steel is less corrosion resistant and where I live the humidity gets up pretty high so my pocket can be like a sauna so I need something that can handle a little bit of humidity I hear VG-10 is more resistant but how much more so? Yes I am aware of the spyderco salt series but they don't keep a edge compared to the other steels and it wont see much water just humidity.

  2. #2
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    When I have a knife with me in the tropics, the sweat is literally pouring off me. Even tool steels do well if I just wipe them off with a dry cloth and follow up with an oil cloth. Stainless knives do rust.

    My H1 Rock Salt has sat in salt water without being rinsed after, been drenched in sweat, not cleaned for a week and still looks great. I have opened 40 or 50 coconuts with it in a day and the blade was still shaving hairs off my arm when I was finished.

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    I have experience with all of those steels, they are all good. But I keep coming back to my Griptilian in D2. But I live in a high desert where there is not as much humidity. If given the option of VG-10 or 154cm I'd go with 154cm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaker34 View Post
    I am tied between the spyderco endura 4, benchmade grip and the benchmade 710 I like the looks of the benchmades a bit better but the steel is less corrosion resistant and where I live the humidity gets up pretty high so my pocket can be like a sauna so I need something that can handle a little bit of humidity I hear VG-10 is more resistant but how much more so? Yes I am aware of the spyderco salt series but they don't keep a edge compared to the other steels and it wont see much water just humidity.
    I either have or have used all three.
    - I don't care as much for the 710 because of the recurve of the blade.
    - I do like the blade shape of the Griptilian.
    - I also like the blade shape of the Endura.

    So that brings it to VG10 vs 154CM. In my book you can toss a coin as to which is better for edge retention. I live 5 miles from the beach. Neither 154CM nor VG10 nor D2 blade has ever rusted.

    That brings it down to ergos and that is an individual call. The Endura is thinner and more comfortable in the pocket. The Griptilian is thicker, which makes it less comfy in the pocket, but more comfortable for hard or extended cutting.

    Neither one is the lesser knife. You could buy either and you would not be unhappy.
    Frank R

    ... Still looking for a vorpal blade.
    (op cit Lewis Carroll)

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  5. #5
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    Vg-10 is way more stain resistant than D-2 or 154Cm. For me it's not a brainer regardless of corrosion resistance. I'd go VG-10 all the way baby!

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    You got data demonstrating that VG10 is more corrosion resistant than 154CM?
    Frank R

    ... Still looking for a vorpal blade.
    (op cit Lewis Carroll)

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    i was always under the impression 154cm and vg10 were very similar in almost all qualities, i dont really know the compositions of either though so i could be misinformed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_hitch-hiker View Post
    i was always under the impression 154cm and vg10 were very similar in almost all qualities, i dont really know the compositions of either though so i could be misinformed.
    so was I..

    I live in a rather humid area, and I have had a tiny bit on my 710 D2, but no rust problems with vg10 or 154cm

    i personally cannot tell the difference between vg10 and 154cm in terms of edge retention during usage, and it would be impossible to really tell, unless you had the exact same blade in both and you had the edges set at exactly the same angle, etc

    between the endura and the grip, though, i'd go with the endura, but get the FFG version

    better ergos in my opinion, and i like bigger blades, and i don't like hollow cheap the griptilian's FRN handles feel (not that it is a bad knife, just my personal views)

    if possible, find the foliage green g10 version..

    which i always thought was funny, because it is the "fully flat ground foliage green g10 scales in VG10 steel"

    aka.. "FFG FG G10 VG10"


    but out of the three my vote goes to the 710, it is probably one of the most perfect knives ever made IMO, good length (and unlike knarfeng, i love the recurve), carries well, feels like quality when you hold it

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    I would agree with knarfeng, with one small caveat. H1 steel has no carbon in it to oxidize, it cannot rust. It sounds like you took the opinion of someone that was not very informed in edge holding ability of H1 as fact.

    VG10 and H1 both have similar edge holding capabilities, the knives you mention are not designed for cutting super hard materials. If your primary concern is rust accumulation then the Salt series should be a natural choice. They are not only intended for use in water, but humid conditions as well. Let's not forget intended use, budget, and actual use as important variables too.
    Edit: Get yourself a Pacific Salt, it's Endura size, rust proof, and easy to sharpen.
    Last edited by RevDevil; 08-14-2010 at 02:36 PM.

  10. #10
    According to Joe Talmadge, “VG-10 can be thought of as being like ATS-34 and 154-CM, but doing just about everything a hair better. It's a little more stain resistant, tougher, holds an edge a little better. And VG-10 has vanadium in it, it's fine-grained and takes the best edge of this group.”
    http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

    154-CM has 14 percent chromium and no vanadium.
    VG-10 has about 15 percent chromium, and a small amount of vanadium, although nothing like S30V
    http://www.agrussell.com/Steel_Guide/a/73/
    With a little less carbon and a little more chromium, VG-10 should be more rust resistant.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RevDevil View Post
    I would agree with knarfeng, with one small caveat. H1 steel has no carbon in it to oxidize, it cannot rust. It sounds like you took the opinion of someone that was not very informed in edge holding ability of H1 as fact.

    VG10 and H1 both have similar edge holding capabilities, the knives you mention are not designed for cutting super hard materials. If your primary concern is rust accumulation then the Salt series should be a natural choice. They are not only intended for use in water, but humid conditions as well. Let's not forget intended use, budget, and actual use as important variables too.
    Edit: Get yourself a Pacific Salt, it's Endura size, rust proof, and easy to sharpen.
    So a Spyderco H1 knife would be as good as 440C or 154CM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevDevil View Post
    I would agree with knarfeng, with one small caveat. H1 steel has no carbon in it to oxidize, it cannot rust. It sounds like you took the opinion of someone that was not very informed in edge holding ability of H1 as fact.

    VG10 and H1 both have similar edge holding capabilities, the knives you mention are not designed for cutting super hard materials. If your primary concern is rust accumulation then the Salt series should be a natural choice. They are not only intended for use in water, but humid conditions as well. Let's not forget intended use, budget, and actual use as important variables too.
    Edit: Get yourself a Pacific Salt, it's Endura size, rust proof, and easy to sharpen.
    I am confused. Where in this thread did I mention H1?
    Frank R

    ... Still looking for a vorpal blade.
    (op cit Lewis Carroll)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaker34 View Post
    So a Spyderco H1 knife would be as good as 440C or 154CM?
    I'm not very familiar with 440C aside from 1 knife that sits in a drawer, but I would say that in comparison to VG-10 and 154CM (from a end user stand point, sharpening/use) it would be difficult to see a difference in edge retention. The Pacific salt I have has been sharpened a total of 2 times, and it is still pretty sharp after using it on all kinds of stuff including zip ties, plastic containers, some cardboard, etc. My recommendation is to invest in a small Salt 1 knife as a litmus test, give it a go, and see what it is like. I think you would be pleasantly surprised at the utility and overall performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by knarfeng View Post
    I am confused. Where in this thread did I mention H1?
    You didn't, that was only my 2 cents.

  14. #14
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    There was review a forum member did comparing the edge holding abilities of H1 compared to VG-10, he did his cuts on cardboard with both serrated and plain edge blade, he found that in plain edge the VG-10 did noticeably better, but in serrated (harder RC H1) they did about the same.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SBaker34 View Post
    So a Spyderco H1 knife would be as good as 440C or 154CM?
    154CM, perhaps not, 440C, yes (at least in my experience) in terms of edge holding. H1 is also an extremely tough steel, unlikely to chip or break.

    From experience, 154CM and VG-10 have similar edge-holding capability. 154CM is a tougher steel, but is more difficult to sharpen. VG-10 is easier to sharpen and is more corrosion resistant, but is more likely to chip rather than roll on the edge.

    For an EDC knife, I very much doubt the toughness difference will be a large problem for you. I prefer VG-10 for EDC, 154CM for beater do-stuff-I-wouldn't-subject-my-other-knives-to stuff.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevDevil View Post
    I'm not very familiar with 440C aside from 1 knife that sits in a drawer, but I would say that in comparison to VG-10 and 154CM (from a end user stand point, sharpening/use) it would be difficult to see a difference in edge retention. The Pacific salt I have has been sharpened a total of 2 times, and it is still pretty sharp after using it on all kinds of stuff including zip ties, plastic containers, some cardboard, etc. My recommendation is to invest in a small Salt 1 knife as a litmus test, give it a go, and see what it is like. I think you would be pleasantly surprised at the utility and overall performance.


    You didn't, that was only my 2 cents.
    Oh. It looked to me like you were saying I had.

    Quote Originally Posted by jekostas View Post
    154CM, perhaps not, 440C, yes (at least in my experience) in terms of edge holding. H1 is also an extremely tough steel, unlikely to chip or break.

    From experience, 154CM and VG-10 have similar edge-holding capability. 154CM is a tougher steel, but is more difficult to sharpen. VG-10 is easier to sharpen and is more corrosion resistant, but is more likely to chip rather than roll on the edge.

    For an EDC knife, I very much doubt the toughness difference will be a large problem for you. I prefer VG-10 for EDC, 154CM for beater do-stuff-I-wouldn't-subject-my-other-knives-to stuff.
    I've not noticed any propensity to chip in any of my VG10 blades.
    Frank R

    ... Still looking for a vorpal blade.
    (op cit Lewis Carroll)

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  17. #17
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    My waved Endura (VG-10) rusts in the summer in Connecticut and Pennsylvania (in parts not near the ocean) whenever there's even a little humidity, so if you're in an area with lots of it, my experience says it will definitely rust.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kreole View Post
    My waved Endura (VG-10) rusts in the summer in Connecticut and Pennsylvania (in parts not near the ocean) whenever there's even a little humidity, so if you're in an area with lots of it, my experience says it will definitely rust.

    It's funny how individual experiences vary so much. I live in the rain forest next to the ocean, and have no problem with rust on D2 steels, much less VG-10.

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    I live in South Florida and have plenty 154cm/Ats-34 as well as 1095, D2 (ka-bar) and VG10. VG10 is a very good steel and it does the job and does it certainly better than VG1. Personally I don't like laminates and if you ever have to re-profile one that has been sharpened a lot you will find out why. I don't like D2 only because it can be a bear to sharpen. Perhaps I don't have the patience or the right tools (spyderco sharpmaker) but I don't want to wrestle with my knives to get them where I want them to be. I do happen to like 154cm a great deal. High edge retention, strong, no rust issues and easy to get hair splicing sharp. You should also know that I don't have any issues with my 1095 knives either but I make sure they are good and oiled. Hope this helps.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by EnduringEagle View Post
    I don't like D2 only because it can be a bear to sharpen. Perhaps I don't have the patience or the right tools (spyderco sharpmaker) but I don't want to wrestle with my knives to get them where I want them to be.
    I invested in the Wicked Edge sharpening system. It locks the blade in place so you can get a perfect edge angle, and it has multiple diamond sharpening stones. I reprofiled my 40-degree Benchmade Bone Collector in D2 to a 30-degree edge, and it was a breeze. I never knew D2 could take such a beautiful edge so easily. Good tools really make a difference.

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