Watch out! This might be a trap!

[DOC-CANADA]

Doc's use of toggles here are genius! They provide the features of hold large tension for a heavy spring, allow for easy release and high sensitivity, are relatively simple can be built from natures materials. Having seen a few of Doc's traps in action, I think the toggle is the way to go. Just requires some additional practice sessions to fix the memory of getting it down.

Love that close up picture of the cords on the toggle. It makes a tonne of sense!

Hey Ken, would you be interested in being my fill-in press agent when kage is away???

Doc some of this further information has thickened the plot quite a bit. Hoping to go out and do an overnighter tomorrow and I will have to play with it then after getting camp set up. I have a couple ideas for this trigger already, but want to test them (read: watch them fail) myself before going public with them. May play with a few other of the traps and snares also, haven't done so for a while.

Pictures, rocketbomb, pictures.


I want to reiterate at this point, for all of you who are interested in traps and snares, go and set this up. The trigger, as presented so far, is an excellent trigger, so if you don't follow this thread any more than this, you already have an excellent addition to your traps and snares repertoire, BUT, there is quite a bit more, and by actually building the trigger first, the following will be much easier to understand.

If I just posted everything at once, some of you, maybe even me, if I didn't have prior knowledge, would say, Screw this, too complicated, BUT IT'S NOT.

If you only learn one lifting pole snare trigger, this is it! At least IMHO.

Doc

[tonym]

Hey GS, looking forward to your pictures.

In due time GP.

But for the next 8 days I will ne in St. Lucia working on some other skills.

One of may favorite is; the art of watching bikini'd beauties with out my wife noticing...

[Md 25v]

I don't usually look at videos (I get charged over so many downloads) but I checked it out. How about a drawing of the trigger? I'd like to give it a closer look.

Ask and you shall receive:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/figures/fig8-15.gif

[DOC-CANADA]

In due time GP.

But for the next 8 days I will ne in St. Lucia working on some other skills.
One of may favorite is; the art of watching bikini'd beauties with out my wife noticing...

Sorry, GS, that excuse is a no go. I did a little research, and there should be no problem. In fact, you can even try the drop net triggers.

Ask and you shall receive:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/figures/fig8-15.gif

Thanks Md 25V. I've seen that before, but have never played with it. Your video has provided the incentive.

Doc

[August West]

OK if I end up in a Korean jail I am blaming Doc. You see there are these big fat asian doves that hang out behind my quarters and dove breast is one of my favorite game meats. With a little birdseed and the knowledge I have now. MUHAHAHAHA

Just kidding, thanks Doc

[tonym]

Sorry, GS, that excuse is a no go. I did a little research, and there should be no problem. In fact, you can even try the drop net triggers.





Doc

Looks like there is allready the perfect catch in that net, no trap needed

Besides, I can barely tie one of your fancy knotts with out a drink in my hand

[coote]

Doc explained this trigger to me a while back. It is a very good mechanism that is comparatively easy to build and it can be adapted to use in a variety of ways. Because of the leverage that a longer 'nail' stick can give you, you can set a very strongly loaded trap and still set it off with a relatively light movement.

I made some baited spring-up snares using this trigger and they were successful. I had the bait attached to a cord. The cord had a loop on the other end which triggered the trap more or less as shown in Doc's diagram. The bait in the photo below is a russet apple. The photo shows the bait enclosure that helps ensure that the animal goes through the snare to get to the bait (the trap mechanism isn't particularly well shown here, but you have Doc's diagrams to show the main idea):



Rather than using a bent-over pole or sapling to power a spring up trap, I sometimes prefer the reliability of a weighted lever. Theoretically a weighted lever won't gradually lose it's spring because it is powered by gravity rather than the elasticity of a stick (which can change over time or because of temperature etc). It is also a good method to use where there are no readily available saplings growing nearby. In the picture below you can see that I have used cord to hang my weighted lever on the side of a big pine tree. My lever consists of a long stick with a rock lashed to one end. This weighted lever seems to be hanging from two cords. Only the rear cord is needed to act as a 'pivot' for the lever. The front cord, I think, was actually the snare cord that I slung alongside the lever stick to tie to the pine tree in case the lever stick broke when I had an animal in the snare.



It feels good to be enthusiastically posting here again. I've been busy lately, but I couldn't resist adding to this excellent thread. Best wishes... Coote.

[Troop]

Nice trigger system, Doc. Thanks for posting.

[Joezilla]

I like the L7 more than anything. It works for fishing!

[batosai117]

I like the L7 more than anything. It works for fishing!

Same here, it's my favorite and probably the easiest one to learn right out of the box - so to speak

[Troop]

The "L7" needs too much force to trip it, in my opinion, of course. You've got the full weight or tension of the rig sitting right on the trigger.

[RyanW]

Looks like there is allready the perfect catch in that net, no trap needed

Besides, I can barely tie one of your fancy knotts with out a drink in my hand

Careful it's definitely a Trap, you will lose half your stuff!

sorry I digress, I will try to get Back on Track. This is proably going to be a stupid question but when setting up snares are you leaving them open on game trails hoping that something will get caught up in it by chance or are you baiting them in a way to cause the critter to trigger it?

[DOC-CANADA]

OK if I end up in a Korean jail I am blaming Doc. You see there are these big fat asian doves that hang out behind my quarters and dove breast is one of my favorite game meats. With a little birdseed and the knowledge I have now. MUHAHAHAHA

Just kidding, thanks Doc

Stay tuned, Chris. I'm going to make it even easier for you to indulge.

Doc explained this trigger to me a while back. It is a very good mechanism that is comparatively easy to build and it can be adapted to use in a variety of ways. Because of the leverage that a longer 'nail' stick can give you, you can set a very strongly loaded trap and still set it off with a relatively light movement.

It feels good to be enthusiastically posting here again. I've been busy lately, but I couldn't resist adding to this excellent thread. Best wishes... Coote.

Hey Coote, I know you've been very busy. Thanks for adding to this thread.

Nice trigger system, Doc. Thanks for posting.

Just a start, Troop. Stay tuned. Better yet, go and play with the trigger and post some pictures.

I like the L7 more than anything. It works for fishing!

Joe, anything the L7 can do, the nail trap trigger can do much, much better and then some. Set it up, take pictures, and let's hear your comments.

Same here, it's my favorite and probably the easiest one to learn right out of the box - so to speak

No question, the L7 is pretty straight forward but if you're going to use it, improve its sensitivity by extending the 'L' downward and tie the snare to the bottom of it. This lends a mechanical advantage and makes it easier to trip. (see Troop's comment below).

The "L7" needs too much force to trip it, in my opinion, of course. You've got the full weight or tension of the rig sitting right on the trigger.

Quite right, Troop. Most triggers use some kind of mechanical advantage to offset the full weight or tension of the motor.

Careful it's definitely a Trap, you will lose half your stuff!

sorry I digress, I will try to get Back on Track. This is proably going to be a stupid question but when setting up snares are you leaving them open on game trails hoping that something will get caught up in it by chance or are you baiting them in a way to cause the critter to trigger it?

They could be set up both ways, but if you're using them as a trail set, Ron Hood's original set up would be used.

This thread is really to deal with the potential of the triggering system rather than the whole snaring picture.

Come on guys. Get out and set it up so we can deal with any problems and share any other comments before we go forward.

Doc


ETA, not all of us are as capable as brother Coote when it comes to tying a rock to a balance pole. One way to attack the problem is to carry small, lightweight net bags, that are easily tied to the balance pole and can be filled with as many irregularly shaped rocks (or anything else heavy) as necessary to provide the lift.

[coote]

Yes... a net bag is a good way to attach a rock to the lifting lever. I have used bits of cloth like the cut-up legs of old jeans etc.

[fixer]

[rocketbomb]

OK Doc I was able to get out and play with it for a while. Unfortunately I did bugger up getting all the knots and loops right, but I did get it to work somewhat. My other issue was finding a stick that had the wright slipperiness to it... Too slippery and the loops would just slide around and wouldn't hold, too rough and the trap was very hard to trigger. I suppose that's why it's called the "nail" trigger, having a head on the end with the cord to the engine would solve about three fourths of the woes I found. I also found that the anchor line loop that is used on the trigger end of the stick should be perpendicular to the stick, otherwise it will just slide all over the place and it just doesn't work.

After doing some deer scouting and maybe setting up a stand or a blind I will try again tomorrow, I was running out of daylight today. I had intended to do some other traps as well but did not have the time for it.

[HikingMano]

Hoping to have some time to get out and give it a try this weekend. If not outside, at least at home somehow....

[DOC-CANADA]

OK Doc I was able to get out and play with it for a while. Unfortunately I did bugger up getting all the knots and loops right, but I did get it to work somewhat. My other issue was finding a stick that had the wright slipperiness to it... Too slippery and the loops would just slide around and wouldn't hold, too rough and the trap was very hard to trigger. I suppose that's why it's called the "nail" trigger, having a head on the end with the cord to the engine would solve about three fourths of the woes I found. I also found that the anchor line loop that is used on the trigger end of the stick should be perpendicular to the stick, otherwise it will just slide all over the place and it just doesn't work.

After doing some deer scouting and maybe setting up a stand or a blind I will try again tomorrow, I was running out of daylight today. I had intended to do some other traps as well but did not have the time for it.

rocketbomb, good on you bro! I had just about given up on anybody, other than edgyone getting off their butts and trying it out. (Just saw your post, Russell. Good for you man. Looking forward to the pictures.)

The stick can't be too slippery. You must be setting it up wrong or your stick's not long enough, and the lower anchor loop trying to set up some kind of equilibrium is just coming off your stick. (I just whipped up a quickee side-view diagram to explain what I mean).




A head on the nail would seriously affect the trigger in a negative way.

Can you post a picture? That way I can see what's happening. If you're setting it up correctly, none of those things would be an issue.

This is why I didn't want to post more than I have already. I wanted to make sure everybody understood how the basic trigger works, and there's only one way for that to happen and that's to do it, as rocketbomb has found out.

rocketbomb, don't give up on this trigger. Once you get a handle on it, you'll love it. And there's really nothing to it, just difficult showing this over the internet. If you were here in person, you'd have it in a couple of minutes.

Doc

[rocketbomb]

First off Doc, there's a reason my signature says "I may be slow, but I'm not very good"

Second, your above post explains pretty much everything I had figured out today and will help greatly. To be honest I don't mind having to fiddle and figure out something myself, it helps me to completely understand how something works, not only with traps, but pretty much everything else (dont' ask about how I've learned to cook!)

I will *make* time tomorrow to try again and get some good pictures to post. This connection has limited upload/download bandwidth, so I have to be careful about posting pictures, unfortunately.

[chopchop]

Doc

I'm going to try this out. I have zero trap making experience, but a few things come to mind reading this thread:

1. It seems you could also adjust the equilibrium point (and I assume the sensitivity) by how you space the loops on the anchor line. In other words, you could get a longer stick or make the standing end of one loop longer or shorter to adjust. I know a longer stick is a better mechanical advantage, but the idea of moving the loop instead of changing the stick leads me to my next thought...

2. It seems like you could make an infinitely adjustable anchor by using a big loop instead of 2 smaller ones. In other words, take a piece of cord & tie the ends to make a loop. Then put the loop under an anchor like an exposed root. Now pull the respective ends of the loop up on both sides of the anchor and put them on the respective ends of the stick. That way you could pivot the stick under tension by pulling one end or the other of the loop. When you get it about where you want it, you could take the loop off and put it around the anchor again to secure where the turn in the bight is. I'll try and post a pic to show what I mean (and to see if it actually works).

3. It also seems that you need to have the line to the snare be at least the same or larger in diameter as the line to the anchor. It seems like a small snare line (e.g. copper wire) could possibly slide underneath the anchor line with a quick pull without releasing the trigger. A larger diameter snare line would force the anchor loop off.


Pics to follow, but it might take a bit.