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Thread: Waterstones

  1. #1
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    Oct 2009
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    Waterstones


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    Right, so I've decided to sell my Edge Pro and just work on my freehand skills. I just never found the Edge Pro 'natural' for me and always ended up just using those tiny stones freehand.

    Now I'm confused as to what stones I should go for. Are Norton of high quality? Or are brands like Naniwa much better? I noticed a local business Lee Valley Tools sells waterstones. Are those of good quality?

    I'm probably looking looking for a 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit stone.

    EDIT: Just thought I would also add that Diamond stones were never my thing. I have a small DMT pocket stone for on the go touch ups, but the 'feedback' I was getting from the Edge Pro Stones had me sold on them.
    Last edited by arjung; 11-07-2010 at 12:00 AM.

  2. #2
    I have various Naniwa grits and I like them. (Naniwa is all I've used though)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Georgia
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    I have the Naniwa stones to sharpen my woodworking tools and really like them a lot. The best feature they have over the Nortons is that they need no soaking, just splash and go.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    About the NE corner of Wyoming
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    Well, Choseras don't need much soaking, but I haven't hard of anyone soaking them for less than 10 minutes, but I have left them soaking for a month, using them frequently to occasionally with no issues whatsoever.

    The only stones that nobody disses are Choseras. They seem to be the pinnacle. They work great for me. You won't be disappointed. Chef knives To Go has what you need, I believe, in a 3 stone set for a bargain.
    Best Regards,
    -Grizz

  5. #5
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    Lot of good info here

    What about the Super Stones by Naniwa? They're more affordable for a college student

    And how does the Chosera 5000 grit compare with a 10,000 grit super stone.

  6. #6
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    chocera and SS use the same abrasives, with the same grit rating, what changes is the binding and the concentration of abrasives in it. to make it simple, a chocera at the same grit, will cut a bit faster that a SS and keep it's shape longer without flattening. the SS are pretty soft stones, not that they wear fast, but they feel buttery, they are very easy to gouge, wich is good for me as it tels me if my angle is off. very good but frustrating learning stone, if you master them you're good at angle holding.

    SS are best above 1k, the 1K wear too fast for me that's why i use a shapton pro 1K. if you want a all naniwa setup i'd say get 400 and 1K chocera because that's where hard binding and cutting speed are important. for polishing 5K and 10 k SS are very good. and will accomodate to a hint of convexity on you bevels. soft stone is very good for polishing.

    now if you don't get the complete setup at first, it's okay, from a beginers POV i'd stick on the 1k until i can get the existing bevels locked in muscle memory and the knives shaving sharp. then learn polishing on the 5k and get hair whittling edges at this point a strop may be enough, 10k is good for cosmetic and kitchen knives, no need for edc folders.

    reprofiling is the last thing to learn so the 400 is the last stone to get ...


    hope this helped.

    for the record my freehand setup is dmt XXC and XC, beston 500, shapton pro 1k, naniwa SS 3k, 5K and 10k plus HA strops, felts, and compounds. except the 3k and strops that's pretty much what i advised you in how each stone works, so my advice works for me, perhaps not for everybody but i'm pretty confident.

  7. #7
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    Now that's the kind of answer I was looking for!

    Thanks for the detailed response.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by pwet View Post
    chocera and SS use the same abrasives, with the same grit rating, what changes is the binding and the concentration of abrasives in it. to make it simple, a chocera at the same grit, will cut a bit faster that a SS and keep it's shape longer without flattening. the SS are pretty soft stones, not that they wear fast, but they feel buttery, they are very easy to gouge, wich is good for me as it tels me if my angle is off. very good but frustrating learning stone, if you master them you're good at angle holding.

    SS are best above 1k, the 1K wear too fast for me that's why i use a shapton pro 1K. if you want a all naniwa setup i'd say get 400 and 1K chocera because that's where hard binding and cutting speed are important. for polishing 5K and 10 k SS are very good. and will accomodate to a hint of convexity on you bevels. soft stone is very good for polishing.

    now if you don't get the complete setup at first, it's okay, from a beginers POV i'd stick on the 1k until i can get the existing bevels locked in muscle memory and the knives shaving sharp. then learn polishing on the 5k and get hair whittling edges at this point a strop may be enough, 10k is good for cosmetic and kitchen knives, no need for edc folders.

    reprofiling is the last thing to learn so the 400 is the last stone to get ...


    hope this helped.

    for the record my freehand setup is dmt XXC and XC, beston 500, shapton pro 1k, naniwa SS 3k, 5K and 10k plus HA strops, felts, and compounds. except the 3k and strops that's pretty much what i advised you in how each stone works, so my advice works for me, perhaps not for everybody but i'm pretty confident.
    This is a great answer.

    cbw

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwet View Post
    chocera and SS use the same abrasives, with the same grit rating, what changes is the binding and the concentration of abrasives in it. to make it simple, a chocera at the same grit, will cut a bit faster that a SS and keep it's shape longer without flattening. the SS are pretty soft stones, not that they wear fast, but they feel buttery, they are very easy to gouge, wich is good for me as it tels me if my angle is off. very good but frustrating learning stone, if you master them you're good at angle holding.

    SS are best above 1k, the 1K wear too fast for me that's why i use a shapton pro 1K. if you want a all naniwa setup i'd say get 400 and 1K chocera because that's where hard binding and cutting speed are important. for polishing 5K and 10 k SS are very good. and will accomodate to a hint of convexity on you bevels. soft stone is very good for polishing.

    now if you don't get the complete setup at first, it's okay, from a beginers POV i'd stick on the 1k until i can get the existing bevels locked in muscle memory and the knives shaving sharp. then learn polishing on the 5k and get hair whittling edges at this point a strop may be enough, 10k is good for cosmetic and kitchen knives, no need for edc folders.

    reprofiling is the last thing to learn so the 400 is the last stone to get ...


    hope this helped.

    for the record my freehand setup is dmt XXC and XC, beston 500, shapton pro 1k, naniwa SS 3k, 5K and 10k plus HA strops, felts, and compounds. except the 3k and strops that's pretty much what i advised you in how each stone works, so my advice works for me, perhaps not for everybody but i'm pretty confident.
    What do you like better with the Shapton pro 1000 compared to a Chosera 1000 for a beginner?
    Thanks, A.

  10. #10
    King Waterstones are the cheapest, and seems that they come highly recommended by a few makers as well, Murray Carter uses them exclusively. 1000 and 6000

  11. #11
    I would take an 8K King Gold over the 6K, but MC does do incredibly well with the 6.

    Nortons are good, but be mindful of the different grit rating system. An 8K Norton is the same particle size as a 4K Naniwa/King/etc.

    King & Norton are what you'd be getting from Lee Valley.

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by awestib View Post
    What do you like better with the Shapton pro 1000 compared to a Chosera 1000 for a beginner?
    Thanks, A.
    the fact i had it before i tested the choceras. i tested the 1k chocera and 1,2k sigma power side to side. i prefer the naniwa doesn't feel as good to me as the SS serie but its obviously me and SS is too soft at 1K for me, doesn't wear as fast as a king, but too soft for me. the sigma power seemed almost as fast as the chocera wich seemed a hair faster than the shapton.

    but keep in my that i've tested it in a pinch when meeting a friend the only thing i had to sharpen was a folder and i rarely sharpen folders on japanese whetstones. i don't want to spoil my muscle memory that i preciously keep for low angle sharpening my kitchen knives. for info when i put my takeda on the EP at 10° i barely create a visible microbevel. i don't want this edge on a folder.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwet View Post
    the fact i had it before i tested the choceras. i tested the 1k chocera and 1,2k sigma power side to side. i prefer the naniwa doesn't feel as good to me as the SS serie but its obviously me and SS is too soft at 1K for me, doesn't wear as fast as a king, but too soft for me. the sigma power seemed almost as fast as the chocera wich seemed a hair faster than the shapton.

    but keep in my that i've tested it in a pinch when meeting a friend the only thing i had to sharpen was a folder and i rarely sharpen folders on japanese whetstones. i don't want to spoil my muscle memory that i preciously keep for low angle sharpening my kitchen knives. for info when i put my takeda on the EP at 10° i barely create a visible microbevel. i don't want this edge on a folder.
    Thanks pwet!
    What do you use for a folder/outdoor knives (which I actually mainly will be sharpening as soon as I am beyond the stage where I actually dull them all...)?

  14. #14
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    Feb 2009
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    marseille, france
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    edge pro, falkniven DC4 on the field, strop. i'm not as anal with my pocket knives than i am with my tools.

    and now that i think about it, the drawback of the naniwa SS is that even when you have the hang of it getting out of your confort zone can be pretty annoying. you can't sharpen if you're not focused on what you do.
    Last edited by pwet; 11-09-2010 at 02:44 PM.

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