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Thread: Are laminated Mora blades better than carbon?

  1. #1

    Are laminated Mora blades better than carbon?


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    Are laminated Mora blades better than carbon blades? Why?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    They can be; some of those that are made by FROST are carbon laminated steel. These are knives designed to be used as knives, not axes swords or pry bars. The differences in steel make the blade stronger with only the thin cutting layer at Rc 61-63. This also makes it much easier to keep sharp. Do not be fooled by the "cheap" appearance of the knives, they make them for using not looking and they do a very good job of it, I might add. I have one that has been in regular use (but not heavy) for well over 50 years.
    Dan

  3. #3

    thanks; like #137; care

    Thanks, for example, like Mora #137 on Ragweed Forge?

    For bushcraft tasks, would you say a laminated carbon Mora blade like on the #137 is superior to a regular carbon blade like that on the Mora 511 or a stainless blade like that on the 546?

    Any difference in care for a laminated carbon blade over a carbon blade?

    Do you recommend giving laminated Mora carbon blades and regular carbon blade a patina with vinegar, mustard, etc.?

    Would you say the laminated blade on the Triflex Bushcrafter makes it superior for buschcraft use over the 2010, Forest, 2000, etc.?

  4. #4
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    The laminated carbon blades are a carbon steel center sandwiched between two layers of stainless steel. This provides the same sort of protection as taking a piece of 1095 and coating it with black epoxy as a number of American producers do. The advantage of laminated steel compared to coated steel is that the outer layers don't scratch off as the coatings do.

    Since most of the exposed steel is stainless, trying to give it a patina is not going to do much. I'd not recommend trying to treat it.

    I don't know whether laminated carbon steel performs better or not.


    I stand corrected.
    Last edited by knarfeng; 01-10-2011 at 02:48 PM.
    Frank R

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  5. #5
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    The laminated Mora blades I have are all carbon steel. Helle used to make laminated blades with a high carbon core between 18/8 stainless sides, but (I believe) now uses all stainless.

  6. #6
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    Its a 1095 outer and 1095 center IIRC, the center layer is of higher Rc as stated and performs much better than the lower Rc non laminated blades. The higher Rc gives more edge stability allowing you to sharpen flat with no need for a secondary/micro bevel. Sandpaper over glass or water stones work best.

    Triflex blades are not laminated but heat treated in a different way, they are harder towards the edge and softer towards the spine. Good blades but I like the laminated the best of all mora's.

    As for usefulness, once you use it you will question any knife of higher price. It works so well its almost to good to be true.

    I'd recommend filling the handle or at least sealing the gap between blade and bolster. I didn't and mine rusted then broke probably didn't help that I was beating on it either.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by knifenut1013 View Post

    I'd recommend filling the handle or at least sealing the gap between blade and bolster. I didn't and mine rusted then broke probably didn't help that I was beating on it either.
    Number 1 problem I have with the classic mora's!

    They are easily one of my favorite mora models.

    HOWEVER that stupid bolster has a gaping hole in it. Which makes the knife less than ideal for food prep (mold can accumulate.) I have filled the hole with epoxy before, but it seemed kinda "ghetto" to do that. Wish there was a more professional looking way to fix that hole.

  8. #8
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    The laminated Moras I have has a hard core of carbon steel and outer steel that also is carbon so all knife takes a patina. For hunting use this is an advantage but for general use I also like the solid carbon steel and I also like the 12c27 in the stainless ones. My favorit for moosehunting is the mora 2000 They all have good steel ans sometimes the ergonomi on the knife desides whats best.

    Bosse

  9. #9
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    Hi Bosse, nice to "see" you here .

    There are two kinds of lamination regarding the classic mora knife:

    1. Carbon steel outer layer (1050)
    2. SS outer layer (420J2)

    The SS line of Frosts sports Sandvik 12C27, HRC 58-59. The carbon steel Frosts uses is Uddeholm UHB 20C (eq. to AISI 1095), cold rolled and heat treated to 59-61 HRC. Other designations used: German C.D. Wälzholz-Brockhaus GmbH CK 101 and CK 95, cold rolled, HRC 60.

    The laminated steel core in knives from Frosts are made of Uddeholm 2140/Arne (eq. to AISI O1), HRC 60-62.

    The standard SS from KJ Eriksson (no longer existing) was Sandvik 12C27M (Modified), HRC 58. After the merge they changed to plane Sandvik 12C27.

    KJ's carbon steel was Uddeholm UHB15LM (eq. to AISI 1080) and DIN CK 75/80 (eq. to AISI 1080), both steels HRC 58. Since the Co changed names, these steels have been replaced by Uddeholm UHB 20C (eq. to AISI 1095) and C.D. Wälzholz-Brockhaus GmbH CK 101 and CK 95.

    The Triflex blades are made of differentially tempered Uddeholm UHB 20C (eq. to AISI 1095).

    The Hultafors SS series is japanese AUS-8 and the carbon steel variant is SK-5 (eq. to AISI 1080).

    The Lindblom knives feature a chinese SS/EN 715 stainless steel. HRC 58-60.

    Previously, the blades from Frost were a little bit thinner than those from KJ. Today, they are the same thickness (the thinner variant).

    The steel used in Erik Jönsson knives is SS 1778 (eq. AISI 1078) springsteel. No stainless blades are manufactured any longer.

    Helle uses Sandvik 12C27 in the SS line and UHB 20C in the carbon blades.

    ~Paul~

  10. #10
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    It is real easy to "upgrade" the Mora and fix the bolster...and it won't look goofy or "ghetto" when completed.

    Wrap the blade in leather or thick cloth and put it in a vice, point down and rest the bolster on the jaws. Tighten halfway tight. Tap down with a punch on the end of the tang...two or three taps'll do it. Pull the whole thing apart into 4 pieces (blade, handle, bolster, and a little rolled pommel clip). Clean the metal parts with acetone and rough them up a bit. Apply epoxy. Put it all back together. Works great, easy to do, fills the gap, and gives you an opportunity to make other mods. I tool off the red paint.

    Mora laminated is just about my favorite.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dePaul View Post
    The Triflex blades are made of differentially tempered Uddeholm UHB 20C (eq. to AISI 1095).~Paul~
    I have some memory of someone saying that Triflex is laminated AND differentially heat treated, and that the core is the Swedish equivalent of O-1.

    So it's not laminated and is closer to 1095 than O-1?

  12. #12
    Why go to all the trouble of taking it completely apart only to epoxy the ill fitting factory ferrel/bolster when you can just replace it with an upgrade? check out this website for replacment parts in your blade width and do it right, here's the link:

    https://www.brisa.fi/portal/index.ph...ex&cPath=97_63

    For a few dollars, you can really upgrade a standard Mora to something more fitting it's steel, no pun intended..


    Cheers,
    Serge

  13. #13
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    Regular Frost and Eriksson (Mora) high carbon blades are tough as heck, and stand up to a huge amount of abuse. The laminated blades from Frost are not quite as sturdy, and will bend rather than break. The core will hold an edge longer than the regular high carbon blades. I like the laminated blades for wood carving and the regular for tough chores like cutting turf, prying, general abuse and for loaning to idiots who don't have their own knives.

  14. #14
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    I asked Thomas Eriksson about their Triflex knives and received the following reply;

    From "Thomas Eriksson" <thomas.eriksson@moraofsweden.se>
    To
    Date Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:02:24 +0100


    Hi Bo Thomas!

    Triflex-steel is a high alloyed carbon steel, were the carbon in surface has been reduced (not enough carbon to harden the steel).
    This makes that the blade surface will not be hardened (depth ~0,1mm) and you get a knife that will resist bending and (hammer) hits better than a ordinary high carbon steel knife. The surface of the knife blade are in other words more soft and flexible, but the edge is as hard as any carbon steel knife.
    We have been using Triflex-steel in decades on knifes that has to suffer hammer hits and other heavy duty.

    Please visit our homepage (follow link)
    http://www.moraofsweden.se/index.php...56&ssel=&lng=2
    to read about our steel qualities.

    Decarbonizing the surface of the steel will change the composition from (eg. 1095 to 1050) a high carbon steel to a lower carbon steel. At a given tempering temperature the surface will be softer (eg. Rc 50 vs Rc 58) than .1 mm below the surface. The softer steel is less brittle and can take more abuse. As such it behaves like a laminated blade and a differentially heat treated blade. Although, I doubt that it is either due to the price.

  15. #15
    Funny, as I look closely at my Mora # 137, I can see spots on the blade where the temper was burned off durning grinding, still a great choice for edc/neck carry.

    As for sharpening, I just picked up a Finnish waterstone from Ragnar and found that using it as well as a strop, you can easily put a razor edge on the carbon blades lickity split.

    Cheers,
    Serge

  16. #16
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    Wow, excellent information here.

  17. #17
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    Sorry, I got pulled off track. It depends on the use. The laminated blades are more expensive but they get very sharp. My laminated blade has the same very acute edge that my carbon blades (except my Triflex) have. If you are doing a lot of wood carving the edge on the laminated blade will last longer so you will save time sharpening. For occasional use or a backup in the glove box you can buy 3 Mora #1 carbons for the price of a #1 laminated classic. Although the classic comes with a better sheath. If you want a little extra 'wow' factor when you show it off or if you are going to use it a lot, the laminated blade is worth the price.

  18. #18
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    update to old thread....as of Nov27,2013, company production manager states carbon steel is west euro C100, and not swedish, and has been for decades.....their website, as well, only cites the Sandvik stainless as swedish......note also his suprising take on superiority of THEIR stainless over carbon steel...
    "The carbon steel we use is according to "C100" (1% carbon) and that is a well-defined knife steel alloy made with good accuracy worldwide.
    However we use only carbon steel from European steel mills evaluated over decades (almost centuries). As C100 not is available from Swedish steel mills that is not an option.
    The steel mill we use has been our supplier for decades so there is no recent change. Also the overall critical attribute of the knife blade, both for stainless steel blades as well as for carbon steel blades, is achieved inhouse in our factory in Mora Sweden with our own secret recipes for heat treatment, grinding and sharpening.

    I agree with you regarding rather using the stainless steel as it takes much more bending force without braking and keep an edge MUCH longer than a carbon steel blade.
    Stainless steel is always my first choice. Even though a stainless knife usually is a little bit more expensive you will get much more cutting for the bucks as well as a more carefree knife"

    Quote Originally Posted by dePaul View Post
    Hi Bosse, nice to "see" you here .

    There are two kinds of lamination regarding the classic mora knife:

    1. Carbon steel outer layer (1050)
    2. SS outer layer (420J2)

    The SS line of Frosts sports Sandvik 12C27, HRC 58-59. The carbon steel Frosts uses is Uddeholm UHB 20C (eq. to AISI 1095), cold rolled and heat treated to 59-61 HRC. Other designations used: German C.D. Wälzholz-Brockhaus GmbH CK 101 and CK 95, cold rolled, HRC 60.

    The laminated steel core in knives from Frosts are made of Uddeholm 2140/Arne (eq. to AISI O1), HRC 60-62.

    The standard SS from KJ Eriksson (no longer existing) was Sandvik 12C27M (Modified), HRC 58. After the merge they changed to plane Sandvik 12C27.

    KJ's carbon steel was Uddeholm UHB15LM (eq. to AISI 1080) and DIN CK 75/80 (eq. to AISI 1080), both steels HRC 58. Since the Co changed names, these steels have been replaced by Uddeholm UHB 20C (eq. to AISI 1095) and C.D. Wälzholz-Brockhaus GmbH CK 101 and CK 95.

    The Triflex blades are made of differentially tempered Uddeholm UHB 20C (eq. to AISI 1095).

    The Hultafors SS series is japanese AUS-8 and the carbon steel variant is SK-5 (eq. to AISI 1080).

    The Lindblom knives feature a chinese SS/EN 715 stainless steel. HRC 58-60.

    Previously, the blades from Frost were a little bit thinner than those from KJ. Today, they are the same thickness (the thinner variant).

    The steel used in Erik Jönsson knives is SS 1778 (eq. AISI 1078) springsteel. No stainless blades are manufactured any longer.

    Helle uses Sandvik 12C27 in the SS line and UHB 20C in the carbon blades.

    ~Paul~

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