How to select rivet size? Smaller than thickness needed?

[GrizzlyBear]

I'm getting ready to start an order for a boot dagger. Found a couple pictures of leather sheaths that I'm going to draw inspirpation from. The metal boot/belt clip is held to the back of the sheath with a sewn piece of leather. It's held to this piece of leather with a rivet (or eyelet on one of the pics I have).

Do you usually select a rivet as close to overall thickness as possible or slightly smaller?

Also, another question on this sheath. I can't tell if the belt/boot clip is only secured to the sewn leather piece or if it is riveted all the way through the backside of the sheath?

[rayban]

These two pictures are from a Al Stohlman book, where among many other things, he illustrates the proper length for rivets. Hope this is helpful.

The reason for mounting the belt clip to that piece of leather is so that the back of the clip is sandwiched between two pieces of leather, thus keeping metal away from the knife. So the rivet is also sandwiched the same way.
Hope this is clear.

[GrizzlyBear]

Thank you so much for that! Now I can figure out what size rivets I need.

[rayban]

I usually get both sizes that Tandy offers...if too long, I "touch them" to the belt sander.

[GrizzlyBear]

Wonder if Hobby Lobby has rivets...I really don't want to place an order and pay shipping for such a small order.

[leatherman]

That square on the back really isn't necessary if you line the inside of the sheath, the look is much cleaner.


I use a 3 ounce lining leather on the inside and 7/8 on the outside. The rivet is the "small" size, I can measure out one if you need. The head is smaller than the standard ones as well. Now Tandy carries an ultra small rivet, tiny little buggers, I cant for the life of me figure out what they are for.

[Ebbtide]

Since the first photo in the OP's post is mine and of a sheath I made, I'll comment
The clip assembly is riveted only to the patch of leather.
No metal comes near the blade.
The other reason for the patch was a recess that I cut into the leather to allow the clip to securely lock in. There is a rectangular hole right where the bend in the clip contacts the leather of the patch.
In the past I've had these clips ride or slide off of a thin belt or waistband of my pants.
I got the patch with slot idea from my Gerber Mark 1 sheath.

I'm flattered that you saved the shot of my sheath and used it here.
If my explanation wasn't clear enough I can shoot a better photo.

Good luck and post up your finished piece.

[GrizzlyBear]

Thanks for the responses! Eb, when I was first looking for boot sheaths, yours is the first I found that really struck me as a nice piece, and one that I wanted to replicate. Leatherman, yours are extra nice too, thanks for the picture!

In both of your experiences, are the standard boot clips 'thick' enough to accommodate a boot top? All I have found measure .25". The sheath is going to be for a police officer and will have to work for the type of boots they wear.

[Ebbtide]

I would think so... for a normal boot...
Unless the boot top is thickly padded.

Personally I think a boot is a lousy place to keep anything since it is so hard to get at.
But the customer is always right eh?

Once upon a time, far, far away. I had an AG Russell Sting in my boot top.
Just trying it out for a day.
Pants over the boot.
Running down a flight of steps the knife dislodged from the sheath and thankfully fell outside of the boot (yay bellbottoms!) to the bottom of the stairs.
That sheath, in hand, felt pretty secure. It held the knife's own weight in the upside down position.
Retention is a real issue here.
I wouldn't trust the sheath in the photo above in a boot. Lots of dynamic motion going on with the feet.
I would want kydex or a snap retention for boot carry, but as I said... I don't think boot carry is such a great idea anyway.
YMMV, yadda yadda & so forth

[GrizzlyBear]

I thought about the security issue with running and all that, and haven't come up with a real good method to take care of that. I figured, that the sheath shown in the 2nd picture would allow more of the knife to stay securely in the boot. Constructing a tight fitting sheath as possible, fully wetformed to the knife then hot waxed for rigidity.

Another option, that just came to me, would be to have a flap that comes up from the leg side of the sheath, and over the top of the handle with a snap or one of those ball snaps that fit into the slots.

Any ideas that you guys have, feel free to throw them in.

[rayban]

Grizz, knives have been carried in boots for many many moons.....only way to know if it will work for you is to try it......you can make a proto sheath in one sit-down.

[leatherman]

Thanks for the responses! Eb, when I was first looking for boot sheaths, yours is the first I found that really struck me as a nice piece, and one that I wanted to replicate. Leatherman, yours are extra nice too, thanks for the picture!

In both of your experiences, are the standard boot clips 'thick' enough to accommodate a boot top? All I have found measure .25". The sheath is going to be for a police officer and will have to work for the type of boots they wear.

Yes, the type of clip shown on my sheaths there are new from Tandy, they offer a wider bend to accommodate a thicker material to clip to. SWAT boots have a heavily padded upper therefore you need a clip that will easily go over that. Just don't tell the fellow that the extra room was originally intended for purses. These also don't have that "hump" in the lower part that is so difficult to work around. I can get the item number off one if your curious, they also come in black. I use both the "hump" version and this shorter version quite a bit. The ladies, and well most everyone else, loves the short clip for its wide bend, it clips to so many more things than the narrow bend ones do.

[GrizzlyBear]

Are they still a pretty tight fit without the hump? An item number would be great. I thought about getting on their site, but apparently the blizzard has knocked out their webserver lol. ( I dunno if that's correct, but it sounded good)

[leatherman]

Yea, they are very stout little clips, fully as wide and strong as its stablemate. At the thickness of leather I use, 7/8 oz, the hump all but vanishes and becomes useless but for a pain in the neck to cut the slot in the right place.

part number is 1240-00 for the nickle plate
1240-24 for the black

[rayban]

I have a source for metal clips, made here in our wonderful USA, and they are a fraction of the cost as I've been paying at the local leather supply retail store.
They are stamped "made in USA"
Wide range of sizes for belt clips (like the ones being talked about here) and pocket clips, and other metal hardware used by leathercrafters.
Email me and I'll send you a link.
Rg

[GrizzlyBear]

I may just do that Ray, I have to get some things from tandy this round, so I'll get my first clip there. Then, if I get more orders for a boot knife (or sheaths wanting a belt clip), I may go your route.

[GrizzlyBear]

Yea, they are very stout little clips, fully as wide and strong as its stablemate. At the thickness of leather I use, 7/8 oz, the hump all but vanishes and becomes useless but for a pain in the neck to cut the slot in the right place.

part number is 1240-00 for the nickle plate
1240-24 for the black

Thanks, added one to my order in black. A question on your 'lining leather' you said you use. Is it just regular 3oz leather with a skin side and flesh side or is it different?

[leatherman]

Standard veggie tanned 3/4 oz. Tandy has either full sides or shoulders. I tend toward the sides as they dont have to support anything, just keep stuff from rubbing the blade.

[GrizzlyBear]

Cool thanks. I was going to get a selection of rivets, snaps and setters from Tandy yesterday, but I thought I should wait and see what Hobby Lobby had. Glad I did. I got a package of brass/nickel line 24 snaps w/ setter & dot anvil, for $7.47. The same kit at Tandy was $9.99. Plus, I had a 40% off coupon! Did the same with a variety pack of rapid rivets w/ setter (which was also $9.99 at Tandy).

I wish Hobby Lobby would carry more leatherworking goods...their 40% off coupons are awesome.

[Ebbtide]

Upon rereading this thread, I figured I'd say this just for clarity.
When I mentioned
"I wouldn't trust the sheath in the photo above in a boot."

I did mean my knife in the sheath I made.
Wouldn't want any misunderstandings.

So how's it coming along?