Things can go wrong...E & E

[Don Rearic]

I have always been interested in survival. Started out with all of the camping, hunting and fishing trips, growing up with guns and one parent that lived through The Great Depression and another who grew up in the years when it was still going on. I grew up in a house that had certain views and my peers, well, they couldn't understand where I was coming from sometimes.

Anyway...flashing forward quite a bit... Things like Eagle's old Biafran Mile Run Pouch which was basically designed to hold a handgun, spare magazine, knife, money and Passport got me thinking about all other aspects of survival way back when. Growing up during The Cold War had a hand in it as well.

Eagle has brought back the old Mile Run Pouch. I can't remember who told me, but the country of Biafra was so unstable that Embassy Staff had a mile long run to get to the airport, that's where it received the name.

We talk about a lot of stuff in here.

Most of us will never have to use this stuff...but here is a case where it might have come in handy. Current, too. We are in the process of cutting off foreign aid to Pakistan right now because they are refusing to honor Diplomatic Immunity with one of our people over there.

I hope they release him, he smoked two Pakistanis during an attempted robbery. Probably a spook because he was armed and we're not hanging him out to dry which means he was probably supposed to be armed. I don't know how all of that works over in other countries but I would think if he was just some yahoo, they wouldn't be treating it so seriously.

Read here.

[DH1]

I think he will be released. Pakistan has to walk that line between their people flipping out that the government is a stooge for America by releasing him, and American money. He might be there for a while while that line is being walked though.

The police have him, not a religious group, so that is a bright spot.


I remember you or someone else posting info on that Eagle ppuch/pack a long while ago..maybe it was on your site. I wonder if it's part of the new Eagle/Blackhawk thing where it will be made overseas. Either way I'd like to see a review of one once someone gets one.

[mistwalker]

You and I have similar back grounds in a way. One parent born during the depression, my father, who was a master at stretching every resource and living off of the land. Plus I was a kid when the cold war was at it's peak which had a lot of influence on my train of thought. We spent a lot of time adding to our stores. That mile run reminds me a little of High School in North Dallas and the 1.5 miles of gang territory I had to pass through going to and from school. I wouldn't have minded a good 9mil and an extra mag on a few occasions.

[stsparky]

The local New Balance has a magnetic fastening pouch that might do. Possibly a small automatic could fit inside. They also sell pepper spray for runners.

[333rm]

Good stuff Don, thanks!!! I'll have to go see if Eagle has that on it's site.

[Expatriated]

Good stuff, Don.

I wonder if anyone has a link to the recent story of the two Air Marshals being held in Brazil? They were able to escape and get across the border. It was a month or two ago I think and the details are fuzzy. I thought it might make a good case study at the time and then I forgot to ferret out the specifics.

[Expatriated]

Found a synopsis:


From:
http://www.gadling.com/2010/10/24/tw...ght-assault-c/


Two Federal Air Marshals escape Brazil after in-flight assault charge
by Scott Carmichael (RSS feed) on Oct 24th 2010 at 12:00PM

During a recent flight from Houston to Rio de Janeiro, two U.S. Federal Air Marshals were requested to assist the crew with an unruly passenger. According to crew reports, an intoxicated female passenger tried to start serving herself more alcohol from the galley.

The air marshals approached the lady, and she struggled with them. At one point, she bit a marshal, so she was handcuffed and placed under arrest.

Upon arrival at Rio de Janerio airport, the duo attempted to turn the woman over to local authorities, but they themselves ended up being arrested for assault. As it turns out, the woman they had arrested is the wife of a prominent Brazilian judge.

Their passports were confiscated, and the two were not permitted to leave the country. At this point, they could have waited for the diplomats behind the scenes to fix the situation, but they opted to flee the county on alternative travel documents.

According to CNN, the duo believed the charges against them were retaliatory and decided it was in their best interests to leave the country as soon as possible. Arresting the marshals violates the Tokyo Convention - which allows aircraft operators on international flights to restrain passengers "who are committing or about to commit an offence liable to interfere with the safety of persons or property on board or who are jeopardising good order and discipline".

The whole incident will probably be fixed by diplomats at the State Department, and I'm sure someone will be taking a very close look at the Judge behind the charges so see whether they were warranted or whether someone overstepped their rights. Unfortunately for the women - being the wife of a powerful judge does not mean you have a free pass to create havoc on a plane.

[DH1]

Ha, the most interesting part is glossed over!

Alternative travel documents...

[Expatriated]

Those guys were smart. They had alternative travel docs and they didn't rely on the government.

I'm guessing that they had their official passports taken but they kept their tourist passports hidden and got out on those.

[R.A.T.]

Good stuff, Expat. Between you and Don there is probably more E&E info on BFs than anyone I can think of. Both of you guys think out of the box and that's probably the most important thing you can do in an E&E scenario,

[Expatriated]

Here's an important point in all E&E. It's on Jeff's card and it's one of THE most critical, tactical move you can make: You gotta move quickly before the opposition is fully coordinated. This means quickly getting outside of a perimeter that they will set up and then search within. Banging a kidnapper in the head and taking off before you're in the trunk. Or, in this case, it means getting out of the danger area before all the computer and other checks are up in place.

According to a CNN article, the Air Marshals had their passports taken and they were issued a court date for one week later and were told to "stay in town" so to speak. They a) already had a contingency (second passports) and b) acted before the opposition was able to set things up completely, i.e., they flew out of the country THE SAME DAY. I guarantee if they had waited a few days, their names would have been added to the the databases and their passports would have flagged when they attempted to leave. Then they would have been charged with attempting to flee and locked up.

Act quickly and decisively. Waiting 24 hours to decide what the right thing to do was, or wait on the State Dept to saddle a white horse and bam...they're still getting man-raped in Portuguese 3 months later while the US tries to decide "the best course of action with our 'cooperative' S. American allies".

[R.A.T.]

Damn good stuff. Great thread!

[333rm]

Those guys were smart. They had alternative travel docs and they didn't rely on the government.

I'm guessing that they had their official passports taken but they kept their tourist passports hidden and got out on those.

Great story Expat!!! Those Marshall's did THE right thing by getting their asses out of Brazil while they had a chance to on "alternative" travel documents. More than likely that's what they did. They had their tourist passports stashed in their luggage somewhere. I did the same thing when I was active in the Marine Corps. Since you travel off your military ID when your in the American military and not a passport. But in case you ever found yourself IN A COUNTRY OR ON A FLIGHT that became unstable or hijacked the last thing you want to flash as your identification is your US Marine Corps ID!!! This way you could just blend right in like a civilian and one would know. We weren't even supposed to travel in uniform or any kind either. Due to the threat of hijackings, even within the continental US. You were to change after you got to your destination.

[Don Rearic]

Those guys were smart. They had alternative travel docs and they didn't rely on the government.

I'm guessing that they had their official passports taken but they kept their tourist passports hidden and got out on those.

They did a variation of what Dieter Dengler pre-planned to do. When he was captured in Laos, it created an international incident above and beyond being captured. The Vietnamese accused The United States of hiring German Mercenaries. (In the article below, the USSR's Pravda is cited...)

In this Friday, Aug. 05, 1966 online article from Time you see mention of it but they don't tell you why the accusation was made.

Dengler was carrying his old German Passport as part of his E&E Gear. In the movie "Rescue Dawn," Director Werner Herzog didn't go into it because it would have to be explained more clearly and that would have taken more time. In the movie, Dengler wanted a Navy Rigger to cut open the tongue of his boot and place his Passport in the tongue, concealing it there. It was not his American Passport, it was his old German Passport. Dengler intended, if ever captured, to attempt to pass himself off as a German Journalist.

(Herzog also did a documentary on Dengler, years before the movie "Rescue Dawn." Little Dieter Needs To Fly.)

Friends had a nickname for Dengler, Die Katze. "The Cat." When he was going to college he lived out of his van. He was frugal, a forced frugality, he didn't have much money. So his van was his home and he had a grow box in the thing and used to grow his own potatoes in it, too.

One time it was towed and impounded and since that was his home and had all of his belongings in it, he infiltrated the impound lot and stole his van back.

He also Apprenticed as a Tool and Die Maker when he was in Germany and he found a nail in his prison camp and he started grinding it down until he had a handcuff shim. This is shown in the movie as a theft where some ruse was used to get a nail that was used to hang stuff from in the prison camp but the reality was much more boring and they figured it was more dramatic to create a ruse to remove the nail and steal it in the movie. He just found it, I think it was lying on the ground.

Now, throughout all of what I just wrote about him, the most important thing for anyone to come away with is the mindset that he had. He grew up starving during World War Two and in the time immediately afterward in a totally devastated Germany. Fascinating guy, may he rest in peace.

[Don Rearic]

Since you travel off your military ID when your in the American military and not a passport. But in case you ever found yourself IN A COUNTRY OR ON A FLIGHT that became unstable or hijacked the last thing you want to flash as your identification is your US Marine Corps ID!!! This way you could just blend right in like a civilian and one would know. We weren't even supposed to travel in uniform or any kind either. Due to the threat of hijackings, even within the continental US. You were to change after you got to your destination.

There is a reason for that heightened security. This was the start of it, Hezbollah murdered Navy Diver Robbie Stethem.

Hard to believe that was about 26 years ago when that happened. I wish I was that old again.

[drillsgt71]

While I was in the US Army overseas, It was recomended by my Co to have a US passport for alternative ID. It's hard not to look like a soldier but without seeing a military ID it's hard to prove you really are military. I carried both.

[333rm]

There is a reason for that heightened security. This was the start of it, Hezbollah murdered Navy Diver Robbie Stethem.

Hard to believe that was about 26 years ago when that happened. I wish I was that old again.

Thanks Don for coming up with that guys name for me! I was going to put that incident in my reply but couldn't think of it.

[Expatriated]

Good stuff, guys.

Don, I've always loved reading about Dengler--thanks for that!

[Don Rearic]

Good stuff, Expat. Between you and Don there is probably more E&E info on BFs than anyone I can think of. Both of you guys think out of the box and that's probably the most important thing you can do in an E&E scenario,

Thank you.

Thanks Don for coming up with that guys name for me! I was going to put that incident in my reply but couldn't think of it.

You're welcome.

Good stuff, guys.

Don, I've always loved reading about Dengler--thanks for that!

You're welcome, too. I'm all out of humility for this weekend, back to being Donhole!

[Expatriated]

Don, somehow I missed THIS last year, have you read it? I think I'll pick it up today.