Winkler/Sayoc RnD Hawk video

[JayGoliath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJPIp9bsQTY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6er...eature=related

fantastic...i get to see just how thick yet light it is.

Love the tribal one!

Thanks theelegantelyf & Tracker Dan !

Note: I found these video on youtube and i have yet to own one but very soon after this!

[Venice Will]

Thanks for the video links....

I have to say, the BEAST in me really appreciates the wicked design, and attention
to detail....

but...I have tried justifying the additional "coinage" needed to pick up a Winkler, as opposed
to, say...an RMJ Shrike (which I already own)...

For 1 Winkler I could pick up 2 Shrikes...or depending on options, 1 Shrike and 1 Eagle Talon -

I'll have to settle with drooling over pictures and videos...

[foxx]

I appreciate the links, yet I wish someone would make a video review where they actually use the Winkler hawks.

[Moving Target]

Hadn't seen that first video, thanks!


What's up with the differences in the (back) spike? One is nice and pointy, as it should be, and the other is practically blunt...

I know they are semi-custom pieces - but in all honesty, for that money, I'd be a little concerned about the QC.

[Vaunripped]

great hawks from what i have seen and heard but i just cant bring myself to drop that much cash on one, same with the RMJ hawks, wile great hawks they are just to rich for my blood.

[xjzhx]

I would have liked to have seen some usage of the hawks but they're still so awesome. I'm saving up for one. It's gonna happen.

[Edwood7]

Since they are made for people cutting, I think that maybe a video review of the hawk in actual use would have to involve a dead animal carcass of some sort.

If I get some down time later on, I might do one whit the Sayoc. My dad’s friend has a butchers shop and he has at times let me borrow his back frizzier room for educational purposes. I use some of the pig he has in the fridge to show the new guys some stabbing tactics (thanks Bill the Butcher for the inspiration). We even put a Kevlar vest on the pig some times, to let the guys try out there knives on it.

Most guys discard the knives they carry after this practice.

[JayGoliath]

Most guys discard the knives they carry after this practice.

Wow! Why? i supposed the piggies were properly cleaned?

[Rob Robideau]

I would have liked to have seen some usage of the hawks...

Agreed. A dead animal carcass would work.

[foxx]

I guess I wasn't thinking about a specific target, but pig sure is a great human analog. Mythbusters use them all the time.
Hey EdWood7, if you ever want to "discard" one of your Winklers after a pig demo, just let me know. I will take care of that for you, just send it to me.

[JayGoliath]

When it comes to assault, stabbing could disarm the offender faster than slashing.
The intrusion of inner organ, vital ones will cause major shock and blood loss if struck right.

The spike in this case , as Et did on the kevlar vest in his old thread, proven effective on reaching delicate areas.
One could argue that the back spike could do the same but Sayoc's grind has the shearing effect much like stab n' slice, enabling the spike to reach deeper into the object. Pardon me if i'm wrong, but as soon as you've done that, withdrawing the spike (pivot in this case) from the wound and instead of pulling out, push the butt of the axe violently towards the face of the attacker and knock him out. (only possible if the wound is somewhere around the shoulder/the body armor area). I can only visualize this based on this pic and i wonder if time is a concern for such reaction.

Hey EdWood7, if you ever want to "discard" one of your Winklers after a pig demo, just let me know. I will take care of that for you, just send it to me.

I would want one too. but then again we will have to measure up to his next team leader's standard.

[Edwood7]

They discard there knives, because they find out that some of them don’t work as a weapon. The grips are all wrong, they’re hand slips of to the blade when stabbing, cheap folding knives brake (surprisingly, a lot of the new guys carry Smith and Wesson folders and 511 tac. folders). They learn what works and what doesn’t work as far as an offensive knife. This edged weapons training only last 4 days.
I tried out the Sayo before I took it out. It did awesomely well.

[JayGoliath]

They discard there knives, because they find out that some of them don’t work as a weapon. The grips are all wrong, they’re hand slips of to the blade when stabbing, cheap folding knives brake (surprisingly, a lot of the new guys carry Smith and Wesson folders and 511 tac. folders). They learn what works and what doesn’t work as far as an offensive knife. This edged weapons training only last 4 days.

What did they decide, Et? Pretty sure not an axe since you are that dude already. I'm curious what knife do they prefer now? Fixed blade most likely?

[Edwood7]

Well, a few guys in my group carry the Kestrel from RMJ. Mostly fixed blades carried by my guys. Kabars, a few ESSE knives, and a lot of Benchmade folders. The griptilian is pretty popular.

[JayGoliath]

Ignited about the grinds and have to revive this old slimy thread....thread at your will....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-Designs/page4

What's up with the differences in the (back) spike? One is nice and pointy, as it should be, and the other is practically blunt...

I know they are semi-custom pieces - but in all honesty, for that money, I'd be a little concerned about the QC.

- The Back spike is not made to be as sharp, it is for more blunt force trauma or for accessing the natural "grab" points of the body. We received feedback that sharpened back spikes snag on the gear or are a concern that its too many sharp edges to contend with in the dark.

[Moving Target]

Yes, I can appreciate the argument against "pointy" spikes - although I contend that it is more relevant when discussing longer spikes (e.g Next Gen Ranger, RMJ Shrike) - and not going to be a problem with the Winkler/Sayoc's stubby spike.

My point was, why the noticeable difference between two of the same hawk? Poor QC? Or was it user modified after purchase?

[DWinkler]

The spike that appears blunt from the top view is actually sharp when viewed from the side. With a spike of this length and design the force to use it with either a needle point or the more knife edge point it is hard to determine, and which is better. I have done both on this and other axe models. As feedback comes in from users in the field hopefully it will become clear which is better. My own testing has shown that subtle differences in penetration and strength. So slight it could be user variances rather than actual physical differences.

The 2 Hawks in the video were probably made at different times. Once this issue is determined I'll stick to one or the other. If anyone has an opinion on which is better and why I would love to hear it.

Daniel

[Moving Target]

OK, that makes sense, thank you!

Appreciate your work and committment to getting it right.

[JayGoliath]

If i must get the Sayoc model in the future I would go for the one with more meat, less obtuse. The front spike would already cause much damage and i sure will need a brute rear spike for tougher tasks.

At 3/8" thick and wonderful 5160 or S7 steel, it's good enough to puncture tires, pull out hinges or put someone's through hell.

Ryan Johnson from RMJ did mention about having more metal on the spike will do the job . You could always sharpen the area to needle point should you desire but you can't do vice-versa.

I remember Et mentioned about the too pointy of a rear spike could be troublesome during quick deployment from the kydex sheath (this pic will explain it better)



You might have cut yourself but again i might just be wrong.

[chaos5567]

I ordered one in 2009, fit and finish were horrible, wrong sheath sent. horrible disappointment. returned it and bought a shrike from rmj tactical, It was as advertised and is a great tool.
loved the photo's of the sayoc but was all hype compared to the actual product, i have and use a lot of blades and hawks. the sayoc was better than a sog but still a less than rmj or K5.