First Look - ZT 0777

[presz]

Why n360 ?a steel with less wear resiistance then n690 and similar to 440. That one I don't get ??????

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels...824&hrn=1&gm=0
??????
It does look low end. Am I missing something?

[Thomas W]

As to N360, it is a remelted stainless with nitrogen added. N360 is many times tougher than say 440C, and also tougher than even powder stainless steels. The corrosion resistance is also extremely high. Tests with low temperature tempers give a hardness of 58-59Rc. There is a tradeoff, N360 would produce a knife that would have very high resistance to bending and prying abuse in service. Edge retention is not as high as a powder steel like M390, but the high toughness is the key performance factor.

It's different, it's new. Low end? It's certainly not priced like low end.

[spydusse]

This is what scares me . I never plan on using a folder for exteme tough use I guess that's why I would prefer it with a higher wear resistant steel because that's what I use folders for .selfish I guess lol

[spydusse]

I think n360 would be better suited for a stainless zt0100

[Thingus995]

As to N360, it is a remelted stainless with nitrogen added. N360 is many times tougher than say 440C, and also tougher than even powder stainless steels. The corrosion resistance is also extremely high. Tests with low temperature tempers give a hardness of 58-59Rc. There is a tradeoff, N360 would produce a knife that would have very high resistance to bending and prying abuse in service. Edge retention is not as high as a powder steel like M390, but the high toughness is the key performance factor.

It's different, it's new. Low end? It's certainly not priced like low end.

Thank you for this Thomas, I appreciate the information... I don't care what the impressions are of the steel in this knife, I have complete faith in ZT to make a killer blade, and am still VERY much anticipating this release... I doubt that I'll be able to swing buying a user and a safe queen (I'm saving my pennies!) but I very much want one and very much plan to carry this gorgeous knife!!

[Darkstar2520]

I need at least two of these just for myself. That way I can use one and keep the other as a backup!

If I bought just one, I would have a tough time using it.

Thats exactly what I am going to do maybe even three use two and the third as a safe queen

[Apec]

I think n360 would be better suited for a stainless zt0100

That would be cool. If cost/availability is a concern, it could be a composite blade, say with 14C28N in the spine and just N360 in the cutting edge. I'd say a stonewashed composite blade with green or tan G10 handles.

[kneedeep]

When I first saw the spec sheet with the toughness and corrosion resistance of N360, I thought it looked like a natural choice for a ZT.

I'm certainly no metallurgist, looking at the compositions, I don't really see how N360 is like the "cheap" steels.

The P-ESR process used to to remelt the steel does not sound like something used on a cheap steel.

I think I posted this somewhere else.

Pressure/Protective-Gas Electroslag Remelting (PESR)

Features
• Remelting of consumable electrodes under protective gas (Ar, N2) or pressure up to 16 bar (from 1st melting)
• Two melting stations offset by 90°
• Microprocessor-controlled melting rate
Advantages
• No hydrogen pick up
• Nitrogen alloying up to approx. 0.8%
• Absence of ingot segregations
• Only minor crystal segregations
• Minimum sulphur contents
• Minimum levels of nonmetallic inclusions
• Optimum polishability
• Excellent material properties (virtually isotropic properties, especially with regards to toughness)
• Lowmelting loss of elements with high oxygen affinity
Examples of steel grades
• Plastic mould steels e.g. M303 ISOPLAST®, M333 ISOPLAST®, M340 ISOPLAST®
• Stainless Cr steels e.g. N360 ISOEXTRA®
Examples of application
• Plastics moulds requiring very high polishing finish and wear resistance

Maybe if we are lucky, Kershaw/ZT will use N360 in another knife that people will feel a bit more comfortable beating the snot out of before people start writing off the 0777.

[Kingofthellamas]

Ill chime in, since i definitely consider myself a zt fan, and plan on purchasing the 777.

I will definitely be picking up a 0777. I have one preordered, and if that falls through id probably still pick one up second hand at an inflated price. It looks like a ridiculously sexy knife.

At first it seemed like a production grail knife to me. I love so many aspects of design, the handle, the new pivot system kershaw is using, and the size while still remaining light. I wasn't sure what N360 was but I was sure it was something sexy.

After keeping up with everything, I will admit I am a little uneasy about the steel choice. I do think it will still be a phenomenal blade, but it wasn't what I was expecting.

I don't abuse my folders, and I've never had issues with toughness on a folder's blade. So there was no need for me to desire more toughness in a folder's blade. I do abuse the hell out of fixed blades, but that's best for another thread.

The biggest performance desire I have in a folders blade is wear resistance or edge retention. I use a folder on light-medium task everyday, and probably the majority id classify as light cutting task. It is merely my personal experience for this to be true, and it would be a hasty generalization for me to assume that everyone uses folders in the same way.

I own a few ZT knives, and so It makes complete sense that the blade steel would be geared towards toughness given a simple glance at the rest of their knives. Zt is known for their beefy indestructible knives that can take a bullet, get ran over by a tank, and then get ready for the hard stuff. (exaggeration, but not much)

What confuses me though, is the incorporation of damascus. Don't get me wrong, I love the dama and was immediately drawn to it. I see dama as more a luxury on knives. Not a ton of performance, but it looks dama sexy. However, if this is supposed to be a blade for toughness, why dama? Also, since the spine is the thickest portion of the blade, that seems like the place to put your tough steel in order to endure any lateral forces, and the more delicate steel on the edge. I guess the two materials just seem out of place with one another based on their purpose.

[kneedeep]

The thing you have to remember is that knives like the 0777 are made to make a big impression.
You are supposed to be completely blown away when you see it. Materials choices are not always based on practicality.
Look for more practical choices if there is a regular production followup version.

[Noctis3880]

As to N360, it is a remelted stainless with nitrogen added. N360 is many times tougher than say 440C, and also tougher than even powder stainless steels. The corrosion resistance is also extremely high. Tests with low temperature tempers give a hardness of 58-59Rc. There is a tradeoff, N360 would produce a knife that would have very high resistance to bending and prying abuse in service. Edge retention is not as high as a powder steel like M390, but the high toughness is the key performance factor.

It's different, it's new. Low end? It's certainly not priced like low end.

I couldn't find any datasheets, but could it be heat treated to a higher hardness range(with say, cryo treatment?). I ask this because I'm not sure how much toughness is truly needed for a folding knife, particularly one meant to showcase KAI's machining and technology rather than be a knife to pry ammunition crates open with.

My questions are these:
-What hardness is S30V treated to in the ZT series knives?
-How much tougher than S30V is N360?
-Are broken S30V blades a common sight?

N360 seems impressive enough in its own right, but I'm not sure this is the right knife for it. If anything, my concern is that the damascus spine negates the added toughness and corrosion resistance. Also, I suspect heat treating for a higher hardness range would be impossible due to the damascus spine, which may react differently in a detrimental manner if a higher hardness is attempted. That said, if N360 is truly tougher on a level approaching CPM-3V, I would definitely like to see it in a much larger knife like the 0100. A true stainless chopper is a survivalist's wet dream that would make Jerry Busse jealous.

Just my 2 cents though.

[Wharn]

Wow I was just lurking around here and saw the 0777 for the first time. Amazing.

[FuSchniken]

I can't see how the choice of n360 would negatively affect my reaction to this knife. It looks to be an exceptionally tough steel that would hold up far better to unforeseen abuse than some other super steels. It's a hot new steel, shouldn't it go on the hottest new knife?

I understand there are people who want m390 or s90v or m4 on EVERYTHING but if we haven't sharpened through grandpa's old buck stockman yet I think it's safe to say we have little to worry about with today's higher quality steels.

[scotchleaf]

Military Times took some photos at BLADE yesterday. I've gotta give it to them, they can take a decent picture!

You could get a chopper modeled on that knife - looks like a starship - Cool.

[rororo64]

Yea, I'm not too sure about the N360 steel on this one... I'd much rather have a high edge retention than toughness for a folding knife... Oh well, the 0561 will suit my edge performing needs quite perfectly. I'm hoping for a different steel with higher edge retention such as M390 which has proven to be a bad-ass steel, or Vanax 75/Vanax 35 which seem to be almost as good. It doesn't hurt to dream, right?

[knivesandguns]

For all of those not wanting this knife because of the blade steel....MORE FOR US!

[Revolverrodger]

For all of those not wanting this knife because of the blade steel....MORE FOR US!

More for ME

[Noctis3880]

I've been doing more cutting with my CRK Umnumzaan in S30V today, cutting a papaya tree in fact. I only carved out 1/3 of the trunk, but the edge would still slice printer paper afterwards.

Given the bad rap the steel has been having at Rc 58-59, I must say that edge retention is overrated these days. Edge geometry and ergonomics should play a far more important role.

My Dozier Buffalo River Hunter holds an edge like a dream, but I cut a lot of food with my knives, and forgetting to wipe down for about an hour resulted in some rust spots on the blade. Doing the same on my Umnumzaan but not wiping down for a whole day only showed some small discoloration, which was gone when I washed it with soap and water.

[rororo64]

I wonder how this steel would perform in the tests if the hardness was brought up to 61 or even higher.

[Noctis3880]

I wonder how this steel would perform in the tests if the hardness was brought up to 61 or even higher.

Again, the damascus spine might affect whether or not that can be done. In fact, it might very well be the choice of damascus for the spine that led to the choice of N360 steel, as both the spine and edge steels need to have compatible heat treatment temperatures.