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Thread: Knife for bears

  1. #61
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    Dude, if your going into a remote area loaded with grizzly bears and you plan on protecting yourself from them with a KNIFE, you are going to die.

    I would suggest a green light saber:


  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by CWL View Post
    All I have to say is "get real!" Way too many fantasy posts nowadays.

    I concur...without being seemingly disrespectful, present poster included, many of us on these forums are highly advanced-level computer/media ninjas, and urbanites with no concept of reality of the wild. Not being ugly just truthful. This thread while is probably very sincere is unfortunate as are the numerous serial threads which seem to pop us about once/twice per month of "Which handgun is best for bear or for wilderness survival?" In each of these threads we see more & more pooled ignorance – very sincere, yet ignorant, individuals (me included) sharing our "insight, opinions, and pronouncements" of which handgun is best, which knife is superior for bear etc. Again, many of us have no real world understanding or appreciation of what actually happens in a potential or actual hostile environment with either two and/or four legged predators, their behaviors, patterns, and responses.

    So is a knife and/or even a handgun an effective, realistic, platform for wilderness self-defense?

    Here is a dose of reality - At this very moment I'm looking at three recovered projectiles extracted from a smaller black bear that was repeatedly attacking garbage cans in a rural neighborhood. Deputy “A” was given the green light to "rid the community of the bear." So from approximately 7 yards he shot the bear multiple times (who was pre-occupied eating last nights pizza from the garbage and not in attack mode) with his GLOCK 22 using issued 165 grain Gold Dots. The report of the handgun caused the bear to momentarily stop, look at the Deputy and then return to the Meat Lovers Pizza.

    Puzzled, because on TV the bear is suppose to be DRT (Dead Right There) he walked away and returned with his issued Remington 870 and standard 00 Buck Shot. Again, from around 7 yards he shot the bear once. This time the bear turn around and started to walk toward the Deputy who said in effect "enough of this nonsense - edited for the forum" and did a transition from 00 Buck to Slugs and then shot the bear DRT with one well placed shot.

    Later an autopsy revealed the 40 Cal Gold Dots barely penetrated the hide and was lodged in the outer layer of fat. These projectiles were rendered ineffective by two laryer of fur (course and fine) and the outer layer of fat. The Buck Shot performed the same. The slug had penetrated completely into the vitals.

    Keep in mind, this bear was not in attack mode and was not moving and/or animated and the Deputy was not under high stress and was able to take deliberate, accurate, aim. The deputy had a clear line of fire with no obstructions and most importantly the defense (if you can call it that) was pre-planned, prepared and ready. Also the bear was staged or in an ideal position so the Deputy had a good vital organ shot.

    But what about in the wild? We know two or four legged attacks are sudden, usually from a surprise, are deliberate, fast, and extremely violent. Also these attacks are rarely (perhaps never) where the attacker are standing on a mound posed in a Field and Stream Cover Photo for ideal shot or stab placement.

    So, how do you suppose our Body Alarm Response is going react when a bear launches an unprovoked surprise attack in heavily dense foliage and we’re on less than perfectly flat ground, maybe under the weight of a ruck, with foliage, undergrowth, snags, and other obstacles blocking our sight of the attacker and inhibiting our mobility and yet we’re swinging away with a knife or shooting a puny handgun cartridge with limited capacity at them? Indeed, let’s get real.
    Last edited by Quirt; 10-27-2011 at 11:48 AM.

  3. #63
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    Yeah, if you ever find yourself being attacked by anyone or anything, just give up and die. Never, under any circumstance should you ever think about fighting back, cause that's just stupid.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE MACINTOSH View Post
    I hate to say it but in reading this thred it easy to to pick out the people with the proper mind set for survival and those who dont , the fighters and the quiters. IMHO
    IMHO, it is rather easy to see those who do not take the scenario of carrying a knife for the express purpose of bear defense seriously. Count me in that number. That said, if attacked by a bear I would use everyting I could to protect myself, a knife at hand, a whistle, road flare, habanero peppers, a squeeky toy, mentos and a liter of Pepsi, whatever. But I would not put myself in a situation like that with the idea of using a knife as my only means of self defense from a bear.

  5. #65
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    I was serious. I would really like to have one of these knives packed with C4!
    After the blast, I might be a little disoriented, so the compass could come in handy.
    The sawteeth on the back are for collecting grizzly claws as souvenirs.



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  6. #66
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    Honestly in my opinion the best bet would be a ballistic knife, just shoot the knife at the bear and run to the closest tree. I have heard of true cases of men fighting off black bears in the continental U.S with knifes but most of them run around 300lb mark and with reasonable chance. But I would sure as hell rather run when it comes to grizzly and larger Alaskan black bear.

  7. #67
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    Quirt, a deputy using his light duty ammunition on a bear doesn't say anything about people using a handgun for protection from bears. The difference in penetration ability of a good knife compared to .40 165gr hollowpoints and 00 buckshot in tough media is huge and flat nosed lead solids compared to duty ammunition is another planet.

    That was just an ignorant deputy.

  8. #68
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    It can be done
    Yogi_Bear.jpg

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrdnanceBubbaUSMC View Post
    Quirt, a deputy using his light duty ammunition on a bear doesn't say anything about people using a handgun for protection from bears. The difference in penetration ability of a good knife compared to .40 165gr hollowpoints and 00 buckshot in tough media is huge and flat nosed lead solids compared to duty ammunition is another planet.

    That was just an ignorant deputy.
    Had he put those rounds in the ear, eye or soft pallet the performance and result would have been different.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyon View Post
    I was serious. I would really like to have one of these knives packed with C4!
    After the blast, I might be a little disoriented, so the compass could come in handy.
    The sawteeth on the back are for collecting grizzly claws as souvenirs.

    All you need to is, learn how to Dress Game.
    I EDC a Straight Jacket while in the Woods.

    The real trick is, getting it Loaded with and for Bear.

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    Allen Saunders: Life is what happens to us while we are making other plans.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE MACINTOSH View Post
    I hate to say it but in reading this thred it easy to to pick out the people with the proper mind set for survival and those who dont , the fighters and the quiters. IMHO
    really?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Codger_64 View Post
    Had he put those rounds in the ear, eye or soft pallet the performance and result would have been different.
    Ordinance Bubba and Codger_64 - I concur with you both on two points. First the deputy was ignorant but isn't any longer! Reality Check - many of us are just as ignorant or naive. Secondly, agreed had he known, based upon prior experience, he would have targeted a CNS (Central Nervious System) area of response as you just indicated.

    I hope you all didn't miss the key point I was trying to make - I only used the Deputy to drive a main point - if a deputy lacked the knowledge and skill to neutrialize a non-violent bear under what I would consider the best or most ideal conditions with the tools he had...how can those of us who are equally or even more ignorant/niave expect to perform under a violent surprise attack, in less than ideal conditions (a wilderness environment) with the current skills and tools we have? The deputy had a wake up call. He didn't fully understand his situation, his target, and how to effectively use the tools he had to their maximum potential!

    Now to reality - under attack we are unlikely to be presented with such a target of opporunity nor will the threat hold still long enough for us to place the hits in these ideal "sweet spots". And if we are so fortunate to have a eye, ear, or soft pallet shot most of us will not have the skill under an adrenal dump to place accurate hits or stabs in such an area even if presented. Most of the attacks are not going to be planned and staged in an ideal setting as I stated earlier. Just saying...

    Solution? Well for some of us we'll continue to do nothing, some of us will do something, and for a few of us - we'll seek out more knowledge/understanding about bears and then find resources where we can train against realistic simulated bear attack conditions discovering if we have the right stuff and are truly adequately prepared. And if we discover we're not prepared or ready will take the neccessary steps to become more ready. Of these few who will assess and train, they will train until they've reached their gear and personal failure points - learning from our failures, making adjustments and then train even harder. These few will discover what gear really gives them an edge and what doesn't. The training never stops and these few we'll have the skill, the will, and the drive to survive and pervail under a stressful environment no matter the circumstances, gear, or conditions.
    Last edited by Quirt; 10-27-2011 at 12:48 PM.

  13. #73
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    As I understood it, the point of the deputy-story wasn't to compare what ammo is best or where to exactly shoot a bear, but that in a real situation, which probably will only give you seconds at best, you won't even damage the bear, as you won't be able to take aim on an eye or mouth opening or whatever. You'll die slowly in an extremely painful manner. What you need is a large calibre high-velocity hunting rifle to stop it in its tracks. Sure, anything is better than nothing, but it's better to have more than less in this case, although the saying is usually reverse (i.e. less is more).

  14. #74
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    Yes, having a bit of knowledge of anatomy goes a long way. The targets I suggested have the thinnest bone structure, no protective layers of fur and fat to deter penetration. Of a bullet or a knife. Would I have the presence of mind to target those places if I was blindsided by a bear? Maybe, maybe not. IMHO, it would be natural for me to fill an attacking bear's mouth with something, anything besides myself. And most animals are very protective of their eyes.

  15. #75
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    You can plan and think about it, but when you are faced with a Bear charge there is a holy cow adrenal dump.

    The wife and I were walking on our place and just started hiking up an area where I've been doing some cutting (trees). There was a dusting of snow on the ground. With the truck hundreds of feet behind us, we hear this crash and look up hill and see a Black Bear running straight for us. Only carrying a Buck 110 at the time, I grab one of the 3" x 3' pieces of wood for a club that I had piled along the path. For some reason I thought about clapping my hands together to make a Gun crack sound, the Bear turned after the Crack of the hands.

    You never know what you'll do till faced with it. I call ourselves lucky, but man what a rush.
    Allen Saunders: Life is what happens to us while we are making other plans.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by BryFry View Post
    Yeah, if you ever find yourself being attacked by anyone or anything, just give up and die. Never, under any circumstance should you ever think about fighting back, cause that's just stupid.
    No. What's stupid is to enter into a situation unprepared for any of the realities that you may encounter, and then be unwilling to listen or learn from others.

  17. #77
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    The best defense you have against a bear is tripping the guy your with then running

    I'm no expert but I wouldn't feel comfortable with anything less than at least l 9-10 inches of steel, but that's also what she says
    Last edited by VTguy17; 10-27-2011 at 12:44 PM.

  18. #78
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    You should learn proper technique with the bear spray. That's really the only viable option after firearms and good avoidance techniques. Have you learned good avoidance techniques?

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE MACINTOSH View Post
    I hate to say it but in reading this thred it easy to to pick out the people with the proper mind set for survival and those who dont , the fighters and the quiters. IMHO
    You call it quitting. I call it a sense of reality.

  20. #80
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    Shotgun: Congrats on your 4,000th Post on BFC.
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