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Thread: The new Condor Dadao

  1. #81
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    Everyone should have their own niche and not get dragged by the ring in their nose to please any clique.

    Enjoy

    GC
    I agree. I'll admit, I'm a fanboy for certain knives, but because they appeal to me. Often times, they're not all that popular with the typical BF people. I have owned several knives that are raved about endlessly here, only to sell them off because I didn't like them. It really should be, buy what feels right for you, not what someone else tells you is cool.

    BTW, I'll freely admit, I don't know jack about swords. I do like several of the Condor blades and I do think they provide a great value.

  2. #82
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    I'm going to continue to lead this thread off topic... But I want to chime in on the VA Zombie Slayer.

    I have one and love it. It's rough around the edges, but it's not supposed to be. Compared to other longswords of a similar size I've handled (not many), it's a bit more front heavy, and a little stiffer overall, but it feels really good in hand. It's .25 inch thick at the tang, 1060 steel and cuts really well. Very little effort to go through bottles and other sword-fodder, and the edge held up well to some small tree branches, and an accidental impact on some concrete. The sheath is a work of art, and the shoulder strap is removable. The swords are offered with leather slab and wrap handles, paracord, or acetal plastic handle slabs. I got the plastic slabs because I think it looks better, and I plan to make a kydex sheath for the sword, so it'll fit the overall tacticool sword look I want for it.

    Not my pictures, but for demonstration purposes.







    I think the overall shape is pretty attractive.


    And to get back on topic, I've always wanted a Dadao, but most offerings I've seen so far were "meh", but for the price of the Condor, and from how much people love their products, I have to pick up one now. And one of their Warloks. And maybe a combat machete. And maybe a TRT hawk. And maybe their whole lineup...

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by horseclover View Post
    I try to restrain myself but when I see stuff like the Condor line, I accept some will love them while not particularly wanting to own one. I believe my words (when the cutlass sword was first projected) were "I wonder if they can offer them in euclid green" (something to that effect). "Great bang for the buck!!!!!" Sure, why not? MAybe a gateway to something even better for the money than what is often spent on peer pressure. Everyone should have their own niche and not get dragged by the ring in their nose to please any clique.

    Enjoy

    GC
    The Condor pieces aren't intended as true swords, so much, as being sword/machete hybrids. They're intended more as utility pieces that have a sword-like flair to them for fun. I love Condor stuff, as I'm sure you've noticed, but I'll be the first to say that their "swords" are not actual swords. The Bush Cutlass was the result of mating a polypropylene saber-style handle originally intended for tourist machetes with the blade of a traditional "sable" machete, which is used on grasses and lush vegetation. The result resembles a cutlass but is really a sable with a fun handle. It's so light and fast in the hand that it handles nearly like a modern sport fencing saber.

    The Dynasty Dadao is a burly two-handed chopper that would do well on woody growth and limbing/felling work with saplings. It would be very effective for clearing young growth up to 3" thick that would be a little thin to easily strike repeatedly with a typical axe.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
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  4. #84
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    They're intended more as utility pieces that have a sword-like flair to them for fun.
    Exactly why I mused they might do well in euclid green, so as not to get lost in the brush.

    I'd also be the first to say I have understood the concept even before they were being widely produced. Machetes with D guards long predate the Condor. The molded grip is a cool thing but there is no need to advertise it further to me.



    The Dynasty Dadao is a burly two-handed chopper that would do well on woody growth and limbing/felling work with saplings. It would be very effective for clearing young growth up to 3" thick that would be a little thin to easily strike repeatedly with a typical axe.
    Yet, an item meant to replicate a traditional weapon and not a woodsman's pal.

    WTF is a typical axe? Axes come in dozens of basic varieties and for even more uses. How may 3" saplings of what species have you slaughtered with a Dynasty Forge Dado? Or are you speaking hypothectically? How close to the ground are you doing so as to truly clear an area? Fun is fun, real work is real work.

    An axe is infinitely more suited to limbing a tree. It is something I am quite familiar with and did a lot of in the 1960s (consider that). I still have my latest primary axe I bought new in 1968 and have been using axes longer than that.

    Have I mentioned elsewhere that my own favorite backyard light brush cutter is a slim medieval type and that I have plenty of poxyclypse tools, as well as axes? I may also have mentioned both my own misuse of tools but also suggesting the right tool for the job can make a difference. For instance, the ivy I cut down every year using a slim sword would go quicker and cleaner with an electric shrub trimmer. I am well aware of the fun factor, believe me.

    Once again it seems I need to be schooled as to why and how these have been produced along with uses. You have taken but a part of that quote by me without apparently understanding my words. If you like these items and have found use for them, that's wonderful. They simply don't float my own boat and I will continue to voice an alternate opinion.

    Cheers

    GC

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by horseclover View Post
    Exactly why I mused they might do well in euclid green, so as not to get lost in the brush.

    I'd also be the first to say I have understood the concept even before they were being widely produced. Machetes with D guards long predate the Condor. The molded grip is a cool thing but there is no need to advertise it further to me.




    Yet, an item meant to replicate a traditional weapon and not a woodsman's pal.

    WTF is a typical axe? Axes come in dozens of basic varieties and for even more uses. How may 3" saplings of what species have you slaughtered with a Dynasty Forge Dado? Or are you speaking hypothectically? How close to the ground are you doing so as to truly clear an area? Fun is fun, real work is real work.

    An axe is infinitely more suited to limbing a tree. It is something I am quite familiar with and did a lot of in the 1960s (consider that). I still have my latest primary axe I bought new in 1968 and have been using axes longer than that.

    Have I mentioned elsewhere that my own favorite backyard light brush cutter is a slim medieval type and that I have plenty of poxyclypse tools, as well as axes? I may also have mentioned both my own misuse of tools but also suggesting the right tool for the job can make a difference. For instance, the ivy I cut down every year using a slim sword would go quicker and cleaner with an electric shrub trimmer. I am well aware of the fun factor, believe me.

    Once again it seems I need to be schooled as to why and how these have been produced along with uses. You have taken but a part of that quote by me without apparently understanding my words. If you like these items and have found use for them, that's wonderful. They simply don't float my own boat and I will continue to voice an alternate opinion.

    Cheers

    GC
    No I totally understood what you were saying--just pointing out that they were intended as "fun" rather than true swords or anything truly historical--rather just "historically inspired" and that the Bush Cutlass had a bit of back story to it, including the origins of the molded handle since plastic mold was repurposed rather than designed from the ground up for that model.

    Note that I was not referring to a Dynasty Forge dadao, but rather the Condor sword/machete hybrid, which is named the "Dynasty Dadao." I would disagree regarding an axe being "infinitely more suited" to limbing a tree. Felling anything larger than 3" diameter, sure. But I just about guarantee you that if I had a large number of 3" and smaller (down to 1" scrub growth) saplings to clear or limb that the job could be done quite effectively with the Condor "dadao" machete as compared with an axe, if simply because of the hard-hitting design combined with a much longer cutting edge, making connecting with the target along the appropriate zone an easier task, as well as the higher tip velocity and slimmer blade being better suited for handling the thin, willowy "scrub" growth. A "typical axe" refers in this case primarily to the cutting edge length, but we can flesh it out further I suppose. Shall we say a Michigan pattern axe with a 4" edge length, 2.5 lb. head and a 28" handle? Just throwing some figures out there to give a ballpark concept. However it was more of an off-the-cuff example of a potential practical use for a "fun" chopper. In this hypothetical situation the Condor fills the role of a hybrid between a more standard machete and a brush axe.

    It's fine that such items aren't appealing to you, but naturally this conversation isn't for your sole benefit. As a result sometimes a portion of a post by one member (in this case yourself) may be useful for illustrating or explaining certain details regarding the topic at hand for the benefit of the audience at large, even should the individual being quoted not have need of the information.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
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  6. #86
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    Note that I was not referring to a Dynasty Forge dadao, but rather the Condor sword/machete hybrid, which is named the "Dynasty Dadao."
    My mistake and it underlines my own general lack of interest in the Condor line but not my understanding in the development of the cutlass. Old news (to me) and before they were being sold.

    But I just about guarantee you that if I had a large number of 3" and smaller (down to 1" scrub growth) saplings to clear or limb that the job could be done quite effectively with the Condor "dadao" machete as compared with an axe, if simply because of the hard-hitting design combined with a much longer cutting edge, making connecting with the target along the appropriate zone an easier task, as well as the higher tip velocity and slimmer blade being better suited for handling the thin, willowy "scrub" growth
    You might as well submit ad copy and get paid for it.

    Enjoy

    GC

  7. #87
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    But I just about guarantee you that if I had a large number of 3" and smaller (down to 1" scrub growth) saplings to clear or limb that the job could be done quite effectively with the Condor "dadao" machete as compared with an axe, if simply because of the hard-hitting design combined with a much longer cutting edge, making connecting with the target along the appropriate zone an easier task, as well as the higher tip velocity and slimmer blade being better suited for handling the thin, willowy "scrub" growth
    I will ask again of your own experience with the item. Or, are you just speaking hypothetically?

    Cheers

    GC

  8. #88
    I've handled the Condor and while I didn't take it for a spin under those hypothetically described circumstances my extensive personal experience with machetes, billhooks, brush axes, and other brush choppers of like kind gave me a strong impression of its abilities. It came with an obtuse factory edge but very good flat grind, and I thinned out the edge before it went to its permanent home. If I had to compare to another edged item it would be to a long-bladed beef splitter. It has a very cleaver-like blade geometry.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
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  9. #89
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    At three and a half pounds, this item from Condor doesn't exactly fit the machete profile. Maybe comparing it to a traditional dadao might make some sense. Your vast experience might surely agree the weight would not exactly be field clearing friendly after a few minutes. Axes and bill hooks handle quite differently than a machete. Wouldn't you agree?

    What do historic beef splitters look like, anyway? There are some ceremonial beheaders across Asia but of a different form.

    What are the cross sectional dimensions of the Condor sword? Am I missing more about the thickness aside from .25" at the hilt? What are the distal taper specs along the blade and how much taper to the cheek is there at the forward end. Is that a shallow diagonal cross section? Or does the spine thickness carry a lot of meat right to the point? You might convince me yet but in the brief appraisals of its build, it does seem more like a sword than a machete. Lasered out or water jet? Then ground from there?

    Cheers

    GC
    Last edited by horseclover; 07-23-2012 at 08:31 AM.

  10. #90
    We need a couple of real reviews!

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by horseclover View Post
    At three and a half pounds, this item from Condor doesn't exactly fit the machete profile. Maybe comparing it to a traditional dadao might make some sense. Your vast experience might surely agree the weight would not exactly be filed clearing friendly after a few minutes. Axes and bill hooks handle quite differently than a machete. Wouldn't you agree?

    What do historic beef splitters look like, anyway? There are some ceremonial beheaders across Asia but of a different form.

    What are the cross sectional dimensions of the Condor sword? Am I missing more about the thickness aside from .25" at the hilt? What are the distal taper specs along the blade and how much tape to the cheek is there at the forward end. Is that a shallow diagonal cross section? Or do the spine thickness carry a lot of meat right to the point? You might convince me yet but in the breief appraisals of its build, it does seem more like a sword than a machete. Lasered out or water jet? Then ground from there?

    Cheers

    GC
    The weight has nothing to do with the "machete" element of the design in this case--the blade length and method of appropriate utility use does. The weight and cross section draws the comparison to two-handed beef/pork splitters.

    Here's an old catalog page showing a variety of cleavers. The "pork splitter" in the lower right corner is a good example of a long-bladed two-handed style.
    Attachment 291179

    Yes, axes and billhooks handle differently from machetes. This particular model handles something like a stylistic mashup, however. As previously mentioned it's very cleaver-like and the appropriate method of use for maximizing force of the blow while minimizing personal energy expenditure is something between a machete, cleaver, and a ditch bank blade.

    I cannot provide detailed measurements of the piece as I sold it to a fellow here on the forums.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
    — Mervyn Peake

  12. #92
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    The attachment link renders as invalid

    At any rate, it looks like the intent was to replicate a dadao, not a butchering tool.

    The item is listed by Condor as a sword, not in the machete section. There must be a reason they did so.

    The weight has everything to do in equating the dadao as a machete at all. One hand vs two, weight to deliver heavy chopping vs hours in a field cutting thinner stuff. No doubt it may be somewhat effective as an outdoor item (as accepted posts ago) but the design is that of a sword, not a machete or butchers tool.

    Cheers

    GC

  13. #93


    Here's another one.

    You completely misunderstand my "machete" comment. I suggest rereading it--I was referring to the elements of the design that are evocative of a machete rather than the other elements of the design evocative of other edged chopping tools. Furthermore there are many "heavy" machete variants out there, and countless two-handed ones. And not all machetes are intended for cutting thinner targets specifically. While many are, many are intended for heavier woody targets.

    My commentary has nothing to do with the intent of the design. Merely my impressions of the item, as I've had the benefit of actually having one in hand. However I don't believe their intent was to replicate a dadao but rather create a heavy chopper stylistically patterned after--or inspired by--a dadao. The reason for Condor listing it in their "swords" section is because it falls under their "sword-like" design category. I personally don't believe that they intend for the category to be devoted to "true" swords, but rather sword/machete hybrids. I could be wrong, though--I'm not them.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
    — Mervyn Peake

  14. #94
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    I was referring to the elements of the design that are evocative of a machete rather than the other elements of the design evocative of other edged chopping tools.
    What would those elements be? What makes it anything like a machete? It is evocative of a dadao, which does have historic precedent. Much more so than the modern machetes catering to ..... (what I just don't know).......... kewl factor.

    My commentary has nothing to do with the intent of the design.
    Many of their machete section could be regarded as having a basis in history as swords (or regarded as swords) but have much more build in common to machetes than what Condor is listing as swords. the dadao does not (imo). You regard it as a hybrid, when it really is not. By your own experience as related, you are not even offering a ballpark of the distal taper and that seems kind of superficial to me. Is there 50% distal overall? None? More? Less? Surely you had more than a superficial look at it.

    Much of the commentary I have read from you (while your own opinion, granted) has been of what an item might be best used for and expected use by others. That kind of reads intent to me, whether the company might list it as a bottle lift or a key fob.

    Thanks for what you have shared but an estimation of some of the cross section in thicknesses along the blade would benefit not just me.

    Cheers

    GC

  15. #95
    Evocative of a machete rather than the axe or billhook tool classes which had been used as other comparative examples. I already listed those elements. I could have said sword instead but said machete since it's intended for chopping plants--not people. So in this case context matters as well. Either way this is arguing semantics and not of much useful purpose.

    Not quite sure what you mean by "reading intent" as the only thing I can say about the intent of the design is based on my familiarity with the designer, Joe Flowers, who is more a "machete guy" than a "sword guy" and as such is designing primarily around the same task set and design angle of machetes.

    Regarding distal taper if I had to guess from memory I'd say it reduces to about 1/2 to 2/3 the original stock thickness at the tip.

    Either way it's designed specifically to handle wood chopping tasks without damage, regardless of what you want to call it.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
    — Mervyn Peake

  16. #96
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    Either way it's designed specifically to handle wood chopping tasks without damage, regardless of what you want to call it.
    What the company calls it is a sword. I see nothing in their ad copy that indicates it is to be used for chopping wood (ie 3" saplings/branches). Do you have text from Flowers indicating the primary use for the dadao was slated to be used as a machete or, for that matter. chopping plants/wood? Maybe I'm missing something in his media center links.

    It appears to me that the company is marketing a lot of blades not designed with machete use in mind, so why assume the parameters of design for the dadao (your words) as such is designing primarily around the same task set and design angle of machetes?

    Thanks for your impressions on the distal taper. I'm done, thanks.

    Cheers

    GC

  17. #97
    Which machetes is Condor marketing towards non-machete use? I'm genuinely curious, as I haven't seen anything to that effect.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
    — Mervyn Peake

  18. #98
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    Are you not reading what I write?

    "It appears to me that the company is marketing a lot of blades not designed with machete use in mind,"

    There is quite a list of products aside from the machete section.

    No?

    Cheers

    GC

  19. #99
    They make throwers, axes, and knives, with a couple of shovels thrown in for good measure, yes. The majority of what they make (and what they are best known for) is machetes, and all of their long-bladed models are built with the capacity to withstand repeated blows to hardwoods. The other item in their sword section is a traditional machete blade mated with a sword-like grip. Believe what you'd like, but based on my familiarity with the the company, their products, and their designer, I have reason to believe what I do regarding the design.

    My apologies for the confusion regarding your previous post, however, as I was on a mobile device under bright sun at the time.


    Baryonyx Knife Co. ~Condors, Moras, Deluxe Tramontinas, and More!

    "To live at all is miracle enough."
    — Mervyn Peake

  20. #100
    Probably it would be more constructive to compare this dadao to other dadaos on the market.

    I can't find taper data on the condor but comparatively:

    hanwei: 3/8" -> 3/16", 22 7/8" (the one with the tack weld)
    cold steel: 7/32" -> 1/8", 23 1/4""
    condor: 1/4" -> ?, 21 1/4"

    The condor seems to fit well this group. So how does it handle in comparison?

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