Food Stamps And The Politics Of Entitlements

[timcsaw]

Actually all of these "entitlements" are "earned" simply by meeting the criteria set down in law. The "flavors" tend to be seperated into that with which a person agrees (often because they are counted among those entitled, or wish to be) and those that a person disagrees with (or does not see themselves likely to participate in the benefits of).

In that sense, yes, they are "earned", but an "earned entitlement" based on a legal definition and dictate (in the case of flat out welfare and some entitlements) is far different than an "earned entitlement" which requires one to "actively do something" (work, or contribute money specifically for said entitlement etc.) in order to receive a benefit from that entitlement. I know that you can realize the difference and can differentiate between the two. One is "earned" - as in; Having done something in return - the other is "earned" only because a law dictates that it is "earned" but no work and/or no contribution is required.

[Codger_64]

If two people are hired to the same company and one is a diligent worker, always punctual, producing quality work, while the other is lazy, always late or missing work entirely, and has no concept of quality, have they "earned" their pay equally?

They have earned their pay equally if they have met their employment contract with their employer. If they don't meet the criteria, they don't get paid. With the possible exception of union jobs, employers set the criteria for employees.

[quietmike]

They have earned their pay equally if they have met their employment contract with their employer. If they don't meet the criteria, they don't get paid. With the possible exception of union jobs, employers set the criteria for employees.

The constitution set the criteria for entitlements as well. Too bad so few have simple reading comprehension skills.

[darrin sanders]

Well one thing is for sure. Entitlements are here to stay until the government goes broke. And when that happens stock in some corp. will be worth no more than a food stamp. The resources and ability to hunt, fish, raise livestock, & grow vegetables will be priceless. I'll make it.

[Codger_64]

The constitution set the criteria for entitlements as well. Too bad so few have simple reading comprehension skills.

People read the constitution from their own perspectives and derive from it what they will. This includes politicians, some of whom are claimed to be constitutional scholars. According to the SCOTUS, all current entitlement programs comply with the test of constitutionality. We are yet to hear the obese woman screech on the subject of O'bamacare.

[quietmike]

Well one thing is for sure. Entitlements are here to stay until the government goes broke.

The government has been broke since the early '30's. we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

And when that happens stock in some corp. will be worth no more than a food stamp. The resources and ability to hunt, fish, raise livestock, & grow vegetables will be priceless. I'll make it.

Agreed. That is why the government is making it illegal to catch rainwater, among other nonsense.

[Triton]

You're most certainly welcome. I'm sure you wouldn't want to accidentally disenfranchise black and hispanic voters by supporting the racist policies of the republican party.

So tell us how does one identify someone that is part of this fraudulent voter race?

[Triton]

By this reasoning, I should be able to determine the types of guns and other equipment our soldiers are provided and allowed to carry. And the designs of airports, railways and bridges. I should be able to specify the brand of toilet paper used in Federal buildings including prisons. I should be able to determine the missions and research engaged in by NASA, and whether or not NOAA is allowed to spend money on hurricane tracking. I should also be able to impose new taxes on certain businesses, and on employees of certain businesses. I should be allowed to decide which medical research gets Federal funding and how much. I should be allowed to determine aircraft and automobile industry safety standards. Gosh, if applied across the board, I should be able to determine, according to my own personal metric, how each and every Federal dollar is spent.

Again. The military is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution. Entitlements are not. Tax dollars can be legitimately spent on the military, not on buying soft drinks for the indigent. If you want me to butt out of the moocher's business then tell them to butt out of my wallet.

[darrin sanders]

I haven't heard that it was illegal to collect rainwater. I can just picture a guy setting in a jail cell and getting asked, "what are ya in for?" and he replies, "oh, I got caught with a 500 gallon tank of rainwater". HEHEHE But seriously, in case of an actual all out economic breakdown clean drinking water will be my main concern. But as a child I remember many of the older people having large tanks to catch rainwater off the tin roofs of their houses. There was no electricity in my community until 1946 and no water system until 1980. Those water tanks are how the old folks got by, it can be done again.

[timcsaw]

I haven't heard that it was illegal to collect rainwater. I can just picture a guy setting in a jail cell and getting asked, "what are ya in for?" and he replies, "oh, I got caught with a 500 gallon tank of rainwater". HEHEHE But seriously, in case of an actual all out economic breakdown clean drinking water will be my main concern. But as a child I remember many of the older people having large tanks to catch rainwater off the tin roofs of their houses. There was no electricity in my community until 1946 and no water system until 1980. Those water tanks are how the old folks got by, it can be done again.

I have two 100 gallon rain barrels and a 300 foot artesian well that puts out about 10 gallons a minute... Let me know if you get thirsty.

[Trent Rock]

Colorado water law declares that the state of Colorado
claims the right to all moisture in the atmosphere
that falls within its borders and that “said
moisture is declared to be the property of the people
of this state, dedicated to their use pursuant” to
the Colorado constitution. According to the constitution,
water must be appropriated according to
priority of appropriation. As a result, in much of the
state, it is illegal to divert rainwater falling on your
property expressly for a certain use unless you
have a very old water right or during occasional
periods when there is a surplus of water in the river
system.
You need a PERMIT now, in Colorado....

To qualify for a permit, you must meet a minimum of the following criteria:

The property on which the collection takes place is residential property.
The landowner uses a well, or is legally entitled to a well for the water supply.
The well is permitted for domestic uses according to Section 37-92-602 or Section 37-90-105, C.R.S..
There is no water supply available in the area from a municipality or water district.
The rainwater is collected only from the roof.
The water is used only for those uses that are allowed by, and identified on, the well permit.

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/natres/06702.html

Who owns Colorado's rainwater?

[timcsaw]

Colorado water law declares that the state of Colorado
claims the right to all moisture in the atmosphere
that falls within its borders and that “said
moisture is declared to be the property of the people
of this state, dedicated to their use pursuant” to
the Colorado constitution. According to the constitution,
water must be appropriated according to
priority of appropriation. As a result, in much of the
state, it is illegal to divert rainwater falling on your
property expressly for a certain use unless you
have a very old water right or during occasional
periods when there is a surplus of water in the river
system.
You need a PERMIT now, in Colorado....


http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/natres/06702.html

Who owns Colorado's rainwater?

Sounds like they need to require permits so that the people in Colorado can breath the air since the atomic element "O" is shared by both "air" and water.

If people are breathing the Oxygen out of the air (without permits), then they are reducing the amount of "O" necessary to produce H2O.

[Codger_64]

Kids arrested for building snowmen without a permit.

[lepto]

Have you considered you may be overly sensitive to this issue (perhaps rightfully so considering what you've told us before), and are seeing things that aren't there?

To butcher an old saying, If you feel like a nail, all you see are hammers.

No, both Gingrich and Santorum have engaged in race-baiting (to good effect for Gingrich in S.C.) in this race. It speaks ill of the Grand Old Party that it has, apparently, enough members that are responsive to this tripe such that candidates for president feel comfortable in engaging in such coded language.

Which party was responsible for those injustices and laws? Which party stood in the doorways of schools and paid midnight visits on horseback wearing sheets?
But republicans are the racists?

No, democrats are no strangers to racism either. That said, republicans are the ones currently engaging in these types of politics. These individuals aren't campaigning in this fashion because their appeals fall on deaf ears. To the extent this is true, the republican party would seem to currently be the party of racism.

The normal economic cycle running its course and WWII

What did WWII have to do with ending the Great Depression?

You were talking about the disparity between the rich and poor, I was giving one possible reason of why.

Do you think laziness accounts for the change in haves and have nots?

Which government program taxes the poor and gives that money to the rich? Also, you might want to check your history, Dems have controlled congress, and the presidency, far more often than repubs.
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgov...division_2.htm

Beginning with the "Reagan Revolution" and continuing, in generally increasing intensity, up to the loony republic primary today Americans have been sold the simplistic notion that laissez faire capitalism would solve all of society's ills both economic and social. This has been a distinctly republican notion although plenty of democrats have bought into the big lie generally, IMO, because they lacked the courage to tell their electorate the solution was bogus. That ideology, directly or indirectly, has informed a large part of our public policy for the last 30 years and has led to the disastrous state in which we now find ourselves. Which party held congress or the presidency at any given time has made little difference as they've all paid fealty to this ridiculous philosopy.

Which ones would those be?

Those individuals who might not have an approved ID when attempting to vote.

Why should they have tried to "learn to fish" when the democrats promise to give them "free" fish for doing nothing (except to vote for the/another democrat/sugar daddy)? (and I think if you'll check, there are a number of studies which show that democrats are more wealthy overall than are republicans).

I don't know that 150 million people don't know how to fish. I do know that the wealthiest 400 people have as much wealth as the bottom 150 million. That sounds like a rigged game to me.

It is so much easier to just call people racist than debate the issues at hand, isn't it?

The subject is dog whistle politics. Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul (in numerous newsletters in the past) have all played to the worst instincts of their republican base. Do you disagree?

So tell us how does one identify someone that is part of this fraudulent voter race?

They will be the, predominantly, brown-skinned individuals who do not tend to carry the ID that republicans would like to require of them to vote.

[quietmike]

No, both Gingrich and Santorum have engaged in race-baiting (to good effect for Gingrich in S.C.) in this race. It speaks ill of the Grand Old Party that it has, apparently, enough members that are responsive to this tripe such that candidates for president feel comfortable in engaging in such coded language.

An I will ask again, how is it "racist dog whistle politics" when it is a fact?

Do you think laziness accounts for the change in haves and have nots?

That and an entitlement mentality that teaches fathers can be replaced with a government program.

Beginning with the "Reagan Revolution" and continuing, in generally increasing intensity, up to the loony republic primary today Americans have been sold the simplistic notion that laissez faire capitalism would solve all of society's ills both economic and social. This has been a distinctly republican notion although plenty of democrats have bought into the big lie generally, IMO, because they lacked the courage to tell their electorate the solution was bogus. That ideology, directly or indirectly, has informed a large part of our public policy for the last 30 years and has led to the disastrous state in which we now find ourselves. Which party held congress or the presidency at any given time has made little difference as they've all paid fealty to this ridiculous philosopy.

So, 150 years of racism and failed economics are to be ignored, because republicans weren't able to correct it all in the past 40 years?

If people were too stupid to understand a mortgage contract, they shouldn't have signed it. If they did understand it, then they thought they could outmaneuver the system. In either case, they signed up for the ride, so how can they blame the carney?

Those individuals who might not have an approved ID when attempting to vote.

Which racist policies of Republicans was what I was asking about.
Funny liberals haven't cared one whit about those poor disenfranchised minorities with no I.D., who haven't been able to purchase a gun since 1968, when liberals made it mandatory to have one to exercise a constitutional right.

I don't know that 150 million people don't know how to fish. I do know that the wealthiest 400 people have as much wealth as the bottom 150 million. That sounds like a rigged game to me.

When you're going into it expecting to be a victim, I'm sure it does. Are Olympic gold medals concentrated in the hands of a few athletes, or are they well spread out among the population?

The subject is dog whistle politics. Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul (in numerous newsletters in the past) have all played to the worst instincts of their republican base. Do you disagree?

They have repeated demonstrable facts, that they upset you doesn't make them less factual.

They will be the, predominantly, brown-skinned individuals who do not tend to carry the ID that republicans would like to require of them to vote.

why is it harder for brown skinned people to get an I.D.?

[eyeeatingfish]

I can understand some laws regulating water supplies on private land.
For example lets say on a chunk of land that you own there is a stream, or well or river that feeds multiple other people in your area or farms etc. Do you have the right to dam up that stream/river so that it dries up and no one below you has access to the water anymore? Or do you have the right to run the aquafir dry from your well if dozens of other residents rely on that water?

But saying that you cannot use the water that falls on your roof is insane. If you have potted plants that catch rain then you are diverting the rain water away from the ground.
I mean if you own 10 acres and you somehow build a rain catchment that covers the entire 10 acres maybe that could cause environmental problems but not catching the rain from your roof.
What about dew? Is that illegal to drink too?

[timcsaw]

I can understand some laws regulating water supplies on private land.
For example lets say on a chunk of land that you own there is a stream, or well or river that feeds multiple other people in your area or farms etc. Do you have the right to dam up that stream/river so that it dries up and no one below you has access to the water anymore? Or do you have the right to run the aquafir dry from your well if dozens of other residents rely on that water?

But saying that you cannot use the water that falls on your roof is insane. If you have potted plants that catch rain then you are diverting the rain water away from the ground.
I mean if you own 10 acres and you somehow build a rain catchment that covers the entire 10 acres maybe that could cause environmental problems but not catching the rain from your roof.
What about dew? Is that illegal to drink too?

IIRC, this whole controversy about the "water rights" in Colorado stems from the fact that other states are trying to lay claim to the water in the Colorado River (primarily California). The "water protection" legislation in Colorado is REALLY intended to address the problem of California taking water from the river. But as "government" is very/always prone to do, they go over-board and act stupidly (and cause more problems than they attempt to solve).

"Hey! We have a problem! Let's give it to government and let THEM 'fix' it!" (as they are the "torch-bearers" when it comes to the model of efficiency and sensibility ).

[lepto]

An I will ask again, how is it "racist dog whistle politics" when it is a fact?

So, it is a fact that all blacks are lazy and prefer food stamps to a job?

That and an entitlement mentality that teaches fathers can be replaced with a government program.

How does laziness and an entitlement mentality account for the fact that household wealth and wages for the middle and lower classes have stagnated or gone backwards over the last 30 years while the wealth/wages for the very top have increased by 200-300% or more?

So, 150 years of racism and failed economics are to be ignored, because republicans weren't able to correct it all in the past 40 years?

We were in the process of correcting these issues, beginning with T. Roosevelt and ending with Jimmy Carter, when we (some of us) were sold a laissez faire bill of goods. From that point forward we've been driving in the ditch.

If people were too stupid to understand a mortgage contract, they shouldn't have signed it. If they did understand it, then they thought they could outmaneuver the system. In either case, they signed up for the ride, so how can they blame the carney?

The difference is this isn't a carnival. The results of uninformed choices result in situations like our wrecked economy and lower standards of living for all but a relative few. We should expect better of our leaders than to exploit the inherent credulousness and prejudices of the mass who elected them.

Which racist policies of Republicans was what I was asking about.
Funny liberals haven't cared one whit about those poor disenfranchised minorities with no I.D., who haven't been able to purchase a gun since 1968, when liberals made it mandatory to have one to exercise a constitutional right.

Attempting to enact laws designed to remedy a, virtually, nonexistent problem that have the known effect of disenfranchising minorities would seem to be a fair indicator of racist policy.

When you're going into it expecting to be a victim, I'm sure it does. Are Olympic gold medals concentrated in the hands of a few athletes, or are they well spread out among the population?

The difference is we don't allow atheletes to hire former referees in order to twist the rules of the sport in their favor. And, when we catch athletes cheating, such as when they test positive for steroids, we take their trophies away and run them out of the game.

They have repeated demonstrable facts, tOohat they upset you doesn't make them less factual.

Bootstrapping a "fact", a larger percentage of blacks than whites are using foodstamps, into a strawman stereotype, "blacks should demand jobs not foodstamps" i.e., all blacks prefer government handouts to working, is the essence of dog whistle politics.

why is it harder for brown skinned people to get an I.D.?

I don't know. Perhaps they have an inherent distrust of authority from hundreds of years of oppression?

[timcsaw]

Those individuals who might not have an approved ID when attempting to vote.

You mean those individuals who had to have had an ID when they registered to vote in the first place, but don't have that very same ID (or another) available to show at the polling place on the day they go to actually vote? (as a side note, I believe the number of states that require voter ID is up to 37 and the list continues to grow. Additionally, the SCOTUS has ruled that voter ID is Constitutional so expect to see the list to continue to grow even faster (unless Obama & Co. continue to try to stop those states that are trying to implement voter ID to join the current 37 other states that require voter ID)).

I don't know that 150 million people don't know how to fish. I do know that the wealthiest 400 people have as much wealth as the bottom 150 million. That sounds like a rigged game to me.

It's not that many people don't know HOW to fish, it's that they are given an incentive ("free" fish) NOT to fish, or NOT to learn how to fish (why expend any of thier own effort or "work" when the Democrats Government does all the work for them? Yes, it is a rigged game... "free" fish for the "price" of a vote for the democrat. Subsidize the behavior you want.

They will be the, predominantly, brown-skinned individuals who do not tend to carry the ID that republicans would like to require of them to vote.

Those the same one's who showed an ID to register and got onto the voter list, but now don't seem to have any ID when it comes time to vote... or are we talking about people who didn't show ID and register at all, who are not legally on the voter list anyway?

[quietmike]

So, it is a fact that all blacks are lazy and prefer food stamps to a job?

The only people who said all were those looking for a reason to.be offended.
Poverty disproportionately affects blacks, that is a fact.

How does laziness and an entitlement mentality account for the fact that household wealth and wages for the middle and lower classes have stagnated or gone backwards over the last 30 years while the wealth/wages for the very top have increased by 200-300% or more?

Technology has made unskilled work pay less or become obsolete. Running a factory with robots and machines is more profitable than with people.

We were in the process of correcting these issues, beginning with T. Roosevelt and ending with Jimmy Carter, when we (some of us) were sold a laissez faire bill of goods. From that point forward we've been driving in the ditch.

Ah, the good ol carter days with double digit interest rates, gas rationing, and Americans held hostage for months and months.
Points for regurgitating obamas campaign speech though.

The difference is this isn't a carnival. The results of uninformed choices result in situations like our wrecked economy and lower standards of living for all but a relative few. We should expect better of our leaders than to exploit the inherent credulousness and prejudices of the mass who elected them.

If they didn't understand they shouldnt have signed. Do you really want a government to protect you from yourself?

Attempting to enact laws designed to remedy a, virtually, nonexistent problem that have the known effect of disenfranchising minorities would seem to be a fair indicator of racist policy.

Where is your faux indignation over the disenfranchisement of their second amendment rights?

The difference is we don't allow atheletes to hire former referees in order to twist the rules of the sport in their favor. And, when we catch athletes cheating, such as when they test positive for steroids, we take their trophies away and run them out of the game.

Who did Obama appoint to head up the FDA? Where did he work before?

Bootstrapping a "fact", a larger percentage of blacks than whites are using foodstamps, into a strawman stereotype, "blacks should demand jobs not foodstamps" i.e., all blacks prefer government handouts to working, is the essence of dog whistle politics.

What issue would be a better topic for a speech at the NAAPC?

I don't know. Perhaps they have an inherent distrust of authority from hundreds of years of oppression?

Yet they overcome that fear and vote en masse for the very party that oppressed them for so long?