hitachi white steel

[javand]

I'm just going by mike's last post?

[javand]

Bill, yeah I'm sure you can stretch it, but its going to be tricky forging something for height that's 3/16, factoring counter bending, the inproportional height/width ratio (collpase, stress wrinkles) and decarb.

Its also going to exclude the stock removal guys from being able to make an appropriate height chef's. All I'm saying is, I could work with it, but I think 1.5 is making it more trouble than its worth for me, but then again, id rather have round or at-least 1/2" thickness. Then again, that's entirely based on how I like to make knives.

I just don't see the point of getting 3/16th stock if its going to be too short to really be ideal for stock removal. It doesn't seem like a compromise that really helps anybody.

Sorry if my opinion is offensive to anybody, I'm probably wrong, but that's just the way its working out in my brain. I think you mentioned getting it in sheet form, wouldn't tthat work out for just about everybody?

[MountainBilly]

if i can not get a mixed order im going to have to go with white 1 but i hope i can get a mixed order im going to get 3/16 by 1.5 bars its only one thickness per order or per 1000 lbs

3/16 is perfect for me. You say "one thickness per order"; does that mean multiple widths are available? 1.5" is OK by me if I can't get a variety.

[RyanW]

I would be in for 25# of the stuff if it is at least 1.5" wide.

[Bill Burke]

Bill, yeah I'm sure you can stretch it, but its going to be tricky forging something for height that's 3/16, factoring counter bending, the inproportional height/width ratio (collpase, stress wrinkles) and decarb.

Its also going to exclude the stock removal guys from being able to make an appropriate height chef's. All I'm saying is, I could work with it, but I think 1.5 is making it more trouble than its worth for me, but then again, id rather have round or at-least 1/2" thickness. Then again, that's entirely based on how I like to make knives.

I just don't see the point of getting 3/16th stock if its going to be too short to really be ideal for stock removal. It doesn't seem like a compromise that really helps anybody.

Sorry if my opinion is offensive to anybody, I'm probably wrong, but that's just the way its working out in my brain. I think you mentioned getting it in sheet form, wouldn't tthat work out for just about everybody?

yeh the stock removal guys will have a hard time using 1.5 inch wide stock. your other concerns do have merrit but by forging the bevels first then forging in the taper the bending can be delt with without too much trouble. decarb is also a consideration if hand forging but for the guys with power hammers again not too much of a problem.

[javand]

Aye Bill, I don't disagree. I've got a hammer, along with all the other toys, I could definitely work with it. I guess I'm mostly just wondering what the dimensional choices are based upon. I personally would want some more versatile stock to work with considering the premiums.


Would getting it in 3/8 by 4 or 6 inch wide sections be prohibitive to anybody?

I guess it doesn't matter. Put me down for 50lbs.

[SBranson]

I'd be in for 25lbs.

[R.Rock]

could someone tell me the benifits of this steel vs w2?
the answer will help with my purchase decision.

[bladsmth]

I understand javands concerns, but the majority of users will probably do stock removal on this. 3/16 will allow the most folks to use one shipment size.

This is why I suggested sheet stock. It could be sheared to 12" sections at the factory, shipped in one neat box from Hitachi ( fifty sheets is about 1000 pounds), and each recipients desired size knife could be cut as needed. Those wanting to do batches of high end kitchen knives could lay it out and have their entire sheet cut by waterjet and waste almost nothing.

I really encourage Mike to look at ordering this in 3/16" sheet, and have it sent in 36"X12" cuts ( or whatever width the sheets are made in). Each will weigh about 22.6 pounds. Sheets of that size can be placed between two pieces of cardboard with glued in gussets, or just have the edges Duct taped and bubble wrap it.

I'm going to throw something out that hasn't been talked about much......shipping.
It gets shipped here in one load for about $8 per pound. OK, not bad....plus freight to the East Coast....about $2-3 a pound extra. Hopefully, there will not be a customs agent needed to bring it in, but if so, that will add some fees,too.
Then it will get broken up into small shipments by Mike, and that will add another dollar or two per pound.
Someone ( Mike) will have to have a warehouse or other place with a fork lift to accept the delivery, and then do the packing and shipping to those who have a share. When all is done, it will be about $12-14 per pound, at best, depending on where you live. I would figure $15 per pound as the final cost, just to be on the safe side.
Also, there are Canadian folks saying they are in on this. Shipping this to Canada will be expensive, as well as the VAT that the recipient will have to pay. Canadians can figure this to cost about $20 per pound.

Since we are only talking about less than twenty guys ordering this, it wouldn't be too much difficulty to ship when divided up, but it will take Mike about twenty hours total time to do all that is needed to divide it, pack it , label it, and ship it.

If Mike does not have the delivery capabilities, I could check with a friend that has a warehouse and forklifts about accepting the delivery. Then I could ship out the steel to those who purchase it.
A 58 pound bundle ( two sheets plus packing) shipped from Norfolk VA to as far as Kansas City,MO ( just an example) would cost about $57 in shipping, and $5 or so in packing materials, so it would run a bit over $1 per pound in shipping. Depending on where you live this can be higher or lower. South Carolina is about .90 per pound, and California will be about 1.70 per pound.

[tattooedfreak]

Which is why I'm limited to under 20#. However I am still in. I plan on doing stock removal for the most part, but having it at 1.5" x 3/16 pretty much forces me to do at least some forging (which I am happy with, don't get me wrong) on the bevels and tapers in order to open the width a little. I think most people getting this steel, if they don't already forge, will end up doing some just to try it but 3/16 is a good thickness otherwise. 1/8 would have been better for me, but I would have wanted it at 2" instead of 1.5", so I take what I can get. I'm just happy someone is getting this stuff in. Now we can see how magical it actually is (or how magical we can make it :-)

[Mike Davis]

The difference between the hitachi steel and W2 is that Hitachi steel is super consistant from batch to batch, the sulphur content is very very minimal and the carbon content is higher. Basically it is a super clean carbon steel similar to W1, just with minimal sulphur. Sulphur is what makes a carbon steel knife smell funky when you cut food. Also, with onions, potatoes and a few other veggies, it will cause the product being cut to turn black. It is still very easily forged,water hardening carbon steel.

[R.Rock]

The difference between the hitachi steel and W2 is that Hitachi steel is super consistant from batch to batch, the sulphur content is very very minimal and the carbon content is higher. Basically it is a super clean carbon steel similar to W1, just with minimal sulphur. Sulphur is what makes a carbon steel knife smell funky when you cut food. Also, with onions, potatoes and a few other veggies, it will cause the product being cut to turn black. It is still very easily forged,water hardening carbon steel.

Thanks for this information.

[lazlo]

The difference between the hitachi steel and W2 is that Hitachi steel is super consistant from batch to batch

Hitachi White is a pure high carbon steel. There are no alloying elements like the tungsten, vanadium, and chromium that W1, W2 and Hitachi Super Blue have.

I can't imagine that Hitachi steel is any purer or more consistent than Starrett or Crucible tool steels.

[R.Rock]

I would like 10lbs of this if that's not to small of a order.
Thank you.

[javand]

Stacy makes some good points. If this is going to end up running over $10 a lb, I won't be able to afford it. Maybe we can get some definite numbers from Mike soon. Its difficult to really commit without them.

[R.Rock]

Stacy makes some good points. If this is going to end up running over $10 a lb, I won't be able to afford it. Maybe we can get some definite numbers from Mike soon. Its difficult to really commit without them.

Exactly.
If I knew the numbers I can adjust my order.

[mike nelson]

wow this thread blew up over night lol but im thinking roughly 10 a lb shipped to me and i could get flat rate shipping if i cut it into bars and shipped all around the globe for 25-30 a box i am hesitant to get sheets because it is more troubling for me to cut up if their is an order smaller then 25 lbs and more troubling for the maker to to have to cut it out of a sheet personally i have a sheer and brake but i cant speak for every one on this matter ive heard the word premium thrown out their and i just want to confirm that this is a non for profit thing i am only doing this because this is the only way i can get some hitachi steel i do have access to a ware house and a fork lift so thats not a problem i could get a wider width if every one agrees and i could get it thinner or thicker if every one agrees the order is not final yet however if you are interested in the steel you have to send ME an email at nelsonmichael14@aol.com so when i send out specs and details in mass emails i dont have to track you guys down thanks everyone

[bladsmth]

Good to hear that you have the facilities to deliver and distribute this.

There is a flat rate "Large Board Game Box" that will take a 24" bundle of steel (23.6X11.5X3"). It will fit a 24X12 sheet. It will ship for $15.45 to all USA. Canada is something like $30.

If 24" long bars are going to work for everyone, it would be OK with me.
Rethinking using bar stock,I guess that 2"X.185X24"" would give me the most options.

One last pitch for sheet stock.
A sheet 24X12X.185" weighs 15 pounds. 67 sheets + 1000 pounds. Easier to figure out who gets what, and how much to order.
Many of us will either cut it ourselves, or have it waterjet or laser cut. That way we can have whatever size blade we want without waste. Those who don't have the capability to cut a sheet of steel probably won't be ordering this anyway. If someone does order a sheet, and can't cut it, it can be cut at a machine shop into bars for little or nothing.
If we get sheets at 24X12", it can be slipped into the flat rate box I mentioned above. Less work for Mike, better yield for everyone.
One price for a sheet, (around $150) - One size for all orders - all at one shipping price. Just tell Mike how many sheets you want. Everyone will know up front what the cost will be. I think this will make it a lot easier for Mike, too.
Lastly - I can store and keep track of ten sheets of steel a lot better than eighty bars. I might order more if I know it will be easier to handle and I can probably get a few friends to take a sheet off my hands.

I guess we all need to sit back and wait for Mike to get some real prices and sizes from Hitachi.

[mike nelson]

i see your reasoning im going to call my rep from hitachi now

[mike nelson]

i told him that 12 by 24 is the size we want he is going to see what he can do if not i told him bars 2.5 by 24 so we will see he was at home though not in the office