Looking for steel...

[Jonathon Belt]

to be more precise im lookinging for some s-5 shock steel so that i can try to do something stupid with it aka make a large sword and swing it at stuff till it breaks... anyone know where i can find some?

[Danbo]

Aldo might have it.

[Noctis3880]

I didn't see any. Maybe L-6 or 5160 might be close enough?

[Jonathon Belt]

aldo doesnt have it i checked and im planning on doing a realworld stress test on the s-5 for use in swords so its the only one i can use to get the data i want but i plan on doing the same tests on L-6 and 5160 as well as a few other steels

[thegeek574]

Why are you interested in S5 specifically? would S7 work?

[Jonathon Belt]

s-7 would work i was just going with s-5 because it looked a little better on the impact charts to me

[thegeek574]

S7 is easily available. head over to online metals. they have it in all different sizes.

[Jonathon Belt]

wish that they had some longer pieces my original design was like 9 inches longer then their longest pieces but i can always change the design if i cant find a longer piece

[thegeek574]

Let me see what I can do.

EDIT: online metals will cut to any size that you want. Just give them a call. Also, Southern Tool Steel should be able to take care of you.

[Jonathon Belt]

i think it is about time that i give a better explanation of what im doing and ask for advice

ok so the ideal of these test is to compile data on spesific steels used in knife/sword making my reason for compiling this data is so that i can write a program that can be used in knife design to show that "best" geometry and steel choose for the given application and the conditions that the knife might be used in im kinda hoping that this might help me and anyone else that would like to use this program to make an informed decision on what kind of knife that they want to make/sell.

so now ive stated what i want to do now i ask for the advice what steels should i use in the initial testing phazes i had a few picked out but seeing as how ive only made one knife and that im not very experienced in the field i figgered that i should ask some help

so after this long winded and boring plea of mild insanity.. any advice?

[thegeek574]

If you are planning on doing this, The first thing that came to mind is that you are going to need a belt sander and a lot of belts. making swords with files is something for masochists to do. As far as the program goes, I think the only way that you could really do it correctly is if you took all of the steels you were going to test and then made 3 different sizes of knives out of them (small, medium, and large), and then had them pro heat treated by someone along the lines of Peters HT. This is the only way you could really do this with any sort of credibility. I love the idea, I just think you may want to consider what you are doing or any work that you might go to waste.

Steels: W2, D2, S7, M2, 1080, 1095, 5160, 154CM, CPM154, S30V, L6, 52100, 3V, 440C, and S35VN

[NStricker]

A program. . . for best steel and geometry. . .

You forgot about the heat treat. Two blades, identical geometry, identical steel, two different heat treat methods--say full quench and temper, vs. full quench, temper, and an additional draw on the spine--and you've introduced a new variable that your program won't consider.

[Jonathon Belt]

thank you both for the insites and you are both correct this will take a lot more thinking over do you think that i should start a new thread asking for everyones help in this?

[thegeek574]

I would recommend coming up with a plan and then proposing it and asking for advice. You will get better responses that way.

[hammerfall]

s7 will be fine with sword. s7 is a little bit lower in unnotched impact toughness than s5. but it is higher under V notched impact test. beside s7 is more stable during heat treatment.

s5 is not very stable during annealing, quenching and tempering. the standrad HT for type s5 need 2 furance for the quench. one furance slow heat it to 650C, holding for a time depends on the thickness. and the steel is quickly moved into a salt bath furance which temperature is at 877~900C. holding 45~60seconds per mm, then quench in 60C oil.

[bladsmth]

While I commend your intent, it will sort of be like an apprentice machinist trying to cover every steel and its use as well as all the machining variables and making a program that will pick the steel, tools, angles, speeds, etc.
It is not that it is impossible ( although it may be), but that an inexperienced person won't know how to sort through these things. Even if he looked at a lot of charts, he wouldn't know if the data applied to different circumstances. In knifemaking, the standard metallurgical charts may tell you something different than real world experience will.
Also, if you ask three knife makers about what steel and HT you should use for a specific knife style, you will get at least six answers.

I would suggest that you start simple, covering four or five blade types ( slicer, chopper, hunter/utility, sword, survival/woodcraft ), and five or six steel categories ( eutectoid -1084; hypereutectoid - 1095/W2; simple stainless - 440C; more complex stainless - CPM 154/CPM S35VN; tool and specialty steels - S/M/O series; air hardening steels - A2 )

Make out a template, and a plan for the program. Then post the template for people to fill in their personal choices. You will have to be very specific that only those who have experience with that style and steel should post their opinion, or you will get a lot of ideas that are based on:
Speculation (based on ?)
What they read elsewhere ( which may not be true)
Personal observations like - "I made my first knife yesterday and it is great! Old bed frames are the best steel for a hunting knife....I think they are all made from 1095." ( Speaks for itself)

If the data for the program is reliable, the program will be more reliable.
Also, the appendix and info min many good knifemaking books (Boye, Hrisoulas, Moran, Loveless,etc.) will give suggested steels and use. This data can be very useful for your program, but will require reading a lot of books.
There is a good reason that such programs may take a team of experts several years to assemble.