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Thread: Practical Advantages: 3" Fixed vs 3" Folder

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud Shrimp Moe View Post
    It's silly to argue that folding blades are "as strong as" a fixed blade. Nope. Never have been. Never will be.
    Well, except for some crappy fixed blades I've had over the years...seriously, some of them were extremely weak (and extremely cheap/crappy).
    But for sure no one with a brain will argue that a decent fixed blade isn't stronger than a decent folder. But for everything I've ever done with shorter blades, the folder was strong enough.

    Plus there's the "gadget factor" with folders. Can't discount that.
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  2. #82
    I was fortunate to grow up around men that had spent the majority of their lives outdoors. None of them carried or used a fixed blade for anything.

    Proof enough for me and I've given many folders a work out and have never had one fail. I've been carrying an Izula for the past couple of years and strangely enough it is still going strong. So I guess they both work.

  3. #83
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    Yah, if folders are good enough for 90 percent of the people posting on the EDC thread, they are probably not falling apart with use.

  4. #84
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    This is my first post so please bear with me. When using a fixed blade knife I find that it has some minor but signifigant advantages over a folding knife. One is that the ergonomics are more comfortable and allow me to preform blade tasks without my hand begining to hurt. I have had this experience with both my folders and swiss armies over the years and honestly its rather obnoxious. Two is that there is a certain stability felt when a fixed blade is in hand that a folder just doesn't possess. This might be just a mental issue but personally the knowledge that if needed(which happens more often then not) I can utilize my knife as a p[rybar or other impliment. Three is that I have on several occasions had a pocket clip get ripped off one of my folders, or have found that I am faced with office tasks in which they only halfheartedly suceed.

    This is not a debate on which is better folder or fixed but refering to earlier comments made I believe that some of the facts stated may be incorrect. No matter what type of knife you are using whether it be locking or nonlocking should ever close on your fingers. I have used knives such as swiss armies and simple pocket knives which do not lock in place and while you do need to take that fact into account you should never use the knife in a manner where there is the possibility of the blade closiing and cutting off appendages. Also what is it with the impoliteness which I have been seeing lately? I have been using blade forums for a while as a reference because I believed the people in it to be knowledgable and different opinions respected. I don't care if your opinion is the same as mine or the next guy but please refrain from this belligerent attack on others and their philosophies. That is all I have to currently to say on the matter and i look forward to further discussion.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Round View Post
    I was fortunate to grow up around men that had spent the majority of their lives outdoors. None of them carried or used a fixed blade for anything.
    Most of them probably never went more than a couple miles from the truck.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonc View Post
    Most of them probably never went more than a couple miles from the truck.
    What an arrogant, misinformed and dumb thing to say. How would you know that?

    My grandfather spent part of his life as a professional hunter and a tournament fisherman. When he traveled to hunt (and camped in tents where the hiked to set up camp), he only took his large CASE stockman. It is so well used, the scales are almost smooth now. It's about 65 years old, the blades are about half sized, but it still has plenty of snap and blade left. It is far from being worn out.

    This was also used as his fishing knife as needed (used on big game fish) down at the Gulf Coast where he lived most of his life.

    According to my Dad's brother, Grandad carried that knife almost every day of his life, it was never left behind whether he was at work, hunting in some far off state, camping, or fishing.

    Your inexperience on this subject, lack of respect for other's accomplishments and lack of personal knowledge really show when you post something that far off the mark of reality.

    Robert

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight flyer View Post
    What an arrogant, misinformed and dumb thing to say. How would you know that?

    My grandfather spent part of his life as a professional hunter and a tournament fisherman. When he traveled to hunt (and camped in tents where the hiked to set up camp), he only took his large CASE stockman. It is so well used, the scales are almost smooth now. It's about 65 years old, the blades are about half sized, but it still has plenty of snap and blade left. It is far from being worn out.

    This was also used as his fishing knife as needed (used on big game fish) down at the Gulf Coast where he lived most of his life.

    According to my Dad's brother, Grandad carried that knife almost every day of his life, it was never left behind whether he was at work, hunting in some far off state, camping, or fishing.

    Your inexperience on this subject, lack of respect for other's accomplishments and lack of personal knowledge really show when you post something that far off the mark of reality.

    Robert
    That's telling him.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by medcommander View Post
    This is my first post so please bear with me. When using a fixed blade knife I find that it has some minor but signifigant advantages over a folding knife. One is that the ergonomics are more comfortable and allow me to preform blade tasks without my hand begining to hurt.

    Also what is it with the impoliteness which I have been seeing lately? I have been using blade forums for a while as a reference because I believed the people in it to be knowledgable and different opinions respected. I don't care if your opinion is the same as mine or the next guy but please refrain from this belligerent attack on others and their philosophies. That is all I have to currently to say on the matter and i look forward to further discussion.
    I agree that the ergonomics might be another plus for a 3" fixed blade for most people. I've thought about this thread at length, and I've decided to wait for the BK16 to come out, instead of purchasing the BK14 now. The BK16 is about almost inch longer in both handle and blade. This seems more useful to me because I find folders with a blade longer than 4" to loose their main advantages: the convenient carry size and the utility size good for doing smaller things easily.

    As for the rude comments, medcommander, although the majority of this forum is polite and open-minded, some people don't like to be told what to think and will resort to baby-crying/fighting so that they don't have to use reason and respect. I don't really know who you are referring to specifically, but I'm sure if someone reads this and they even THINK it's about them, then it's about them. Personally, I think the nastiest threads you can enter are ones involving anything negative about Spydercos or Striders, but these are popular knife companies which both make money off the controversy they instigate (Strider: price, history of namesake person; Spyderco: thumbhole and clip innovations, exotic steels, patterns, and scales). Enter at your own risk...

    Thanks for the great discussion, guys.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by stabman View Post
    Well, except for some crappy fixed blades I've had over the years...seriously, some of them were extremely weak (and extremely cheap/crappy).
    But for sure no one with a brain will argue that a decent fixed blade isn't stronger than a decent folder. But for everything I've ever done with shorter blades, the folder was strong enough.

    Plus there's the "gadget factor" with folders. Can't discount that.
    Yeah most people can get by with a folder if their are no other real options due to restrictions and or society issues in their areas.

    I do agree that gadget factor is really apparent these days and seems to be very strong in this thread.

    The really sad part about most of this or the topic in general is we have those who never really had the freedom of real choice of what they can carry, for those it's a folder or nothing.

    If this thread was started 20 years ago or more when most still had the freedom and Society wasn't too screwed up back then like it is today it would be very different than it is now.

    Kinda like those of us who remember what life was like before Computers and Cell Phones.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight flyer View Post
    What an arrogant, misinformed and dumb thing to say. How would you know that?

    My grandfather spent part of his life as a professional hunter and a tournament fisherman. When he traveled to hunt (and camped in tents where the hiked to set up camp), he only took his large CASE stockman. It is so well used, the scales are almost smooth now. It's about 65 years old, the blades are about half sized, but it still has plenty of snap and blade left. It is far from being worn out.

    This was also used as his fishing knife as needed (used on big game fish) down at the Gulf Coast where he lived most of his life.

    According to my Dad's brother, Grandad carried that knife almost every day of his life, it was never left behind whether he was at work, hunting in some far off state, camping, or fishing.

    Your inexperience on this subject, lack of respect for other's accomplishments and lack of personal knowledge really show when you post something that far off the mark of reality.

    Robert
    I would think if he was doing all of that back then that he had other knives around that he used besides that stockman in his pocket like most others that I have known that did those things in his age group.

    I don't doubt it one bit that he carried it all that time, but that being the only knife he used for everything... That I doubt taking into count what he was doing taking common since into count and some of those things would be very difficult to do with just that one knife and would take forever.

    My Grandfather also carried pretty much the same kind of knife for most of his life also, but that wasn't the only knife he used.

    I also carried some kind of stockman in my younger days, always had it on me and did a lot with them, but it wasn't the only knife I owned or used.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonc View Post
    Most of them probably never went more than a couple miles from the truck.
    That's likely not too far off the mark for a few reasons.

    For a lot of hunters, big game anyway they are guided hunts and while the hunter may carry a folder you better believe the guides are carrying fixed blades, they are the ones who do the dressing and quartering of the game.

    Sure local deer hunters (and yeah they usually don't have to go very far from the truck, it's from the truck to the tree stand usually) have been using knives like Buck 110's forever, they are cheap and easy to get, but they aren't exactly in the same league as the big game hunters. You all have seen those types leaning against the counter talking big in the local gun stores about their latest shooting fish in a barrel hunt.

    Not even getting into hunts over in Africa and India, all guided and those guides aren't using the latest 3" folder either to dress and cut up that game.

    As for fishing there are fillet knives and other types of fishing knives that are used for the larger fish like kitchen knives, machetes etc.

    So there really isn't one answer to everything.

    Just thought I would shed a little more reality on this thread.
    Last edited by Ankerson; 02-11-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  12. #92
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    Use the right tool for the job at hand. Common sense dictates.
    The practicality of fixed over folder depends on the job and where you are working and because of gov't. regulation, which are legal to carry. Use the right tool for the right job. Why else are there so many varieties? I find it might be good to have both fixed and folder, why else would anyone carry a peanut and a large knife or machete? Kinda hard to use a machete to do food prep. Kinda hard to cut down a small sized tree with a peanut.

    If you don't have the right tool, you can do three things 1. Use what you have and count the cost and risk if something goes awry. 2. Go get the right tool and finish the job correctly and safely. 3. Be better prepared the next time out.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankerson View Post
    I would think if he was doing all of that back then that he had other knives around that he used besides that stockman in his pocket like most others that I have known that did those things in his age group.

    I don't doubt it one bit that he carried it all that time, but that being the only knife he used for everything... That I doubt taking into count what he was doing taking common since into count and some of those things would be very difficult to do with just that one knife and would take forever.

    My Grandfather also carried pretty much the same kind of knife for most of his life also, but that wasn't the only knife he used.

    I also carried some kind of stockman in my younger days, always had it on me and did a lot with them, but it wasn't the only knife I owned or used.
    OK... you are part right, and well, the other part... maybe common sense would help.

    First, I never said he used it for everything. He was a big, old fashioned man that thought every meal should have meat, potatoes, fresh bread and coffee. When we ate Sunday dinner with my grandparents in the 50's, he always cut his meat with a fixed blade steak knife. The CASE stayed in his pocket; although among some here, they do take delight in cutting their food in a restaurant with their EDC so I can see how you might have got that wrong. He also buttered his roll with another fixed blade, a nice silver paddle looking affair that when with a butter dish of my Grandfather's.

    When he fished, he had a broken three bladed Congress in his tackle box. He wasn't sure how he broke one of the blades, and he wasn't sure where he got it. It was ground away to nothing, but the very stubby remains of the blades cut heavy nylon line like a butter. He literally greased that knife with AMALIE. Also in the box was a dull Rapala in a crusty leather sheath. Never saw him use it.

    When he hunted in North Texas, Colorado, New Mexico an Oklahoma, he took his CASE, and from time to time took a large (I have it, the blade has a 1/4" spine and is about 10" long itself) German hunting knife my Dad gave him when coming home from the Korean War. He carried that knife every once in a while because my Dad gave it to him. It was too big, and he didn't need it to dismantle an animal. He knew where all the joints were on the animals to take them apart and just didn't need it.

    Often times when they would hike to their camp it could be a few miles in, then after the kill, the did minimal processing and hiked the carcass (in pieces sometimes) to a way point to be picked up by the guy that had to hike all the way back to get the truck. For meat processing, he preferred saw. For camping, he didn't know he needed to baton, chop, make emergency shelters or make fires by scratching a spark stick. No one told him how vital those processes were to getting things right. He was there to hunt, adn actually, he didn't give a crap about any of his knives. He hung onto that CASE because it was reliable and got the job done for him every time. He cleaned it with steel wool and 3 in1, and after he was back home from hunting had my grandmother was it out with hot water and soap.

    According to my Dad, after the meat was cleaned and hung, he lit a candle, cut up some tinder, and made a fire. Made coffee, drank a couple of fingers of whiskey, and went to bed so they could get up early for another round. Since the knife was used as a knife only, and the saw carried the tasks that saws usually do, I am sure the CASE did well.

    My own father passed recently. And once again, your keen intuitive sense was right. The big CASE was not the only knife he owned! I received the box of knives that my Grandad passed to my Dad. It had a Keen Kutter Barlow (apparently from the '20s), a broken Keen Kutter medium stockman, a broken Schrade trapper, and some Italian made switchblade that doesn't open all the way. I never saw or heard of him using any of those knives except the Barlow. My Dad didn't, nor did his brother. We believe they were his junk knives.

    You seem to be a huge advocate for fixed blades, but you must know that your opinion and preference for their use won't apply every individual. Heck... I'll bet you never even met my grandfather, but you guessed well (I didn't consider the butter and steak knives until we were being so literal!) about him. I had forgotten about the unused Rapala and the broken Congress in his tackle box, too.

    For me, I have the luxury of carrying what I want. I am in construction, and have been since '72. I have carried a folder of some sort since that time - 40 years - on the job. The fit in my tool bags, in my pocket, and I can keep them under wraps without any staring or questions. On site, no one would care, but I am off and on with clients as well, so less is better for me. Sure, I carried a small fixed at one time, most of us in the trades have, but it just isn't needed.

    Look at the hundreds of millions of Leathermans used everywhere from tradesman work to (literally) combat carry as a preferred tool.... think of all the hundreds of millions of electrician's knives that are used for everything from just making a living to all around utility use.... all folders, no? Sadly, without the knowledge of some here, folks that use these utility knives will never know (like me) that they just don't get it. They could have a "failure" at anytime. And then what?

    I carry a fixed without fail when I go hunting or on a long camp, and actually anytime I feel like it. But for daily use on the job I always carry a folder; everyone else I work with does, too. We use them all day long as a necessary tool. Never had one fail in use as a knife (catch the qualifier), and I have only seen gas station knives fail unexpectedly and catastrophically.

    As always, YMMV.

    Thanks for encouraging the walk down memory lane with my Grandad. He was something else.

    Robert

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight flyer View Post
    OK... you are part right, and well, the other part... maybe common sense would help.

    First, I never said he used it for everything. He was a big, old fashioned man that thought every meal should have meat, potatoes, fresh bread and coffee. When we ate Sunday dinner with my grandparents in the 50's, he always cut his meat with a fixed blade steak knife. The CASE stayed in his pocket; although among some here, they do take delight in cutting their food in a restaurant with their EDC so I can see how you might have got that wrong. He also buttered his roll with another fixed blade, a nice silver paddle looking affair that when with a butter dish of my Grandfather's.

    When he fished, he had a broken three bladed Congress in his tackle box. He wasn't sure how he broke one of the blades, and he wasn't sure where he got it. It was ground away to nothing, but the very stubby remains of the blades cut heavy nylon line like a butter. He literally greased that knife with AMALIE. Also in the box was a dull Rapala in a crusty leather sheath. Never saw him use it.

    When he hunted in North Texas, Colorado, New Mexico an Oklahoma, he took his CASE, and from time to time took a large (I have it, the blade has a 1/4" spine and is about 10" long itself) German hunting knife my Dad gave him when coming home from the Korean War. He carried that knife every once in a while because my Dad gave it to him. It was too big, and he didn't need it to dismantle an animal. He knew where all the joints were on the animals to take them apart and just didn't need it.

    Often times when they would hike to their camp it could be a few miles in, then after the kill, the did minimal processing and hiked the carcass (in pieces sometimes) to a way point to be picked up by the guy that had to hike all the way back to get the truck. For meat processing, he preferred saw. For camping, he didn't know he needed to baton, chop, make emergency shelters or make fires by scratching a spark stick. No one told him how vital those processes were to getting things right. He was there to hunt, adn actually, he didn't give a crap about any of his knives. He hung onto that CASE because it was reliable and got the job done for him every time. He cleaned it with steel wool and 3 in1, and after he was back home from hunting had my grandmother was it out with hot water and soap.

    According to my Dad, after the meat was cleaned and hung, he lit a candle, cut up some tinder, and made a fire. Made coffee, drank a couple of fingers of whiskey, and went to bed so they could get up early for another round. Since the knife was used as a knife only, and the saw carried the tasks that saws usually do, I am sure the CASE did well.

    My own father passed recently. And once again, your keen intuitive sense was right. The big CASE was not the only knife he owned! I received the box of knives that my Grandad passed to my Dad. It had a Keen Kutter Barlow (apparently from the '20s), a broken Keen Kutter medium stockman, a broken Schrade trapper, and some Italian made switchblade that doesn't open all the way. I never saw or heard of him using any of those knives except the Barlow. My Dad didn't, nor did his brother. We believe they were his junk knives.

    You seem to be a huge advocate for fixed blades, but you must know that your opinion and preference for their use won't apply every individual. Heck... I'll bet you never even met my grandfather, but you guessed well (I didn't consider the butter and steak knives until we were being so literal!) about him. I had forgotten about the unused Rapala and the broken Congress in his tackle box, too.

    For me, I have the luxury of carrying what I want. I am in construction, and have been since '72. I have carried a folder of some sort since that time - 40 years - on the job. The fit in my tool bags, in my pocket, and I can keep them under wraps without any staring or questions. On site, no one would care, but I am off and on with clients as well, so less is better for me. Sure, I carried a small fixed at one time, most of us in the trades have, but it just isn't needed.

    Look at the hundreds of millions of Leathermans used everywhere from tradesman work to (literally) combat carry as a preferred tool.... think of all the hundreds of millions of electrician's knives that are used for everything from just making a living to all around utility use.... all folders, no? Sadly, without the knowledge of some here, folks that use these utility knives will never know (like me) that they just don't get it. They could have a "failure" at anytime. And then what?

    I carry a fixed without fail when I go hunting or on a long camp, and actually anytime I feel like it. But for daily use on the job I always carry a folder; everyone else I work with does, too. We use them all day long as a necessary tool. Never had one fail in use as a knife (catch the qualifier), and I have only seen gas station knives fail unexpectedly and catastrophically.

    As always, YMMV.

    Thanks for encouraging the walk down memory lane with my Grandad. He was something else.

    Robert

    I really didn't guess as most of the ones I have been around over the years really were very knowledgeable and could pass on that knowledge if one would listen to what they are really saying.

    Your grandfather sounds like he was very keen on what he did and how he did it.

    As for FB's I never said one needed a big thick one to get the job done, most of the ones I used for some of those things were smaller and thin so they cut well, usually in the sub 5" range except for fillet knives.

    One of the better production ones that I used was an Old Timer Sharp Finger, it seemed to work better than most.
    Last edited by Ankerson; 02-11-2012 at 02:33 PM.

  15. #95
    Midnight Flyer,

    I just wanted you to know that I read every word of your post. People here often skip or skim long posts or just read the first paragraph. I just wanted you to know that all that typing wasn't a waste of time.

    Your grandfather sounds like a very interesting, old-fashioned guy. I'll bet it was a pleasure to know him.

  16. #96
    a minor nitpick.the opposite of fixed is not broken.use a dictionary if you dont believe.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by killgar View Post
    Midnight Flyer,

    I just wanted you to know that I read every word of your post. People here often skip or skim long posts or just read the first paragraph. I just wanted you to know that all that typing wasn't a waste of time.

    Your grandfather sounds like a very interesting, old-fashioned guy. I'll bet it was a pleasure to know him.
    Thanks, killgar. Grandad was a one in a million. He was a man's man, for better or worse. He hunted and fished as he pleased, and as long as he put food on the table and shelter over his family's head, that was that. Let the rest of the chips fall where they would. Except for his hunting and fishing buddies, he was a pretty solitary man.

    He didn't care for most people, and made no pretense about it. There wasn't a fake bone in his body, nor was there any concern about what others thought of him. He never screwed with anyone and likewise, wanted to be left alone. Until a bit of adult lubrication, he was a quiet man that kept to himself; but he never pulled a cork around people he didn't know. He didn't like very small children, but liked some pretty well after they were reliably potty trained.

    A man like him simply wouldn't survive in today's world. Like I said, a one in a million.

    Until this thread, it had been some time sine I thought about him like that. Wouldn't I love to talk to him now...

    Robert

  18. #98
    My dad made it 71 years with a medium stockman most of the time, sometimes a lockback. He used fixed blades when cooking. When sandblasting, welding, running a dragline, or the other stuff we did in the construction/fabrication business, he used power tools, wrecking bars, mauls, etc. A knife was of little importance for anything but cutting string or sharpening a pencil. And castrating 400 lb hogs, but that's another story.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by midnight flyer View Post
    Thanks, killgar. Grandad was a one in a million. He was a man's man, for better or worse. He hunted and fished as he pleased, and as long as he put food on the table and shelter over his family's head, that was that. Let the rest of the chips fall where they would. Except for his hunting and fishing buddies, he was a pretty solitary man.

    He didn't care for most people, and made no pretense about it. There wasn't a fake bone in his body, nor was there any concern about what others thought of him. He never screwed with anyone and likewise, wanted to be left alone. Until a bit of adult lubrication, he was a quiet man that kept to himself; but he never pulled a cork around people he didn't know. He didn't like very small children, but liked some pretty well after they were reliably potty trained.

    A man like him simply wouldn't survive in today's world. Like I said, a one in a million.

    Until this thread, it had been some time sine I thought about him like that. Wouldn't I love to talk to him now...

    Robert
    I think men like that could survive anywhere. My Grandpa passed 24 years ago, your story reminded me of him. Those old-timers had no time or tolerance for bullsh*t. That's part of what made them so great.

    They live on in our memories.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by nagod View Post
    a minor nitpick.the opposite of fixed is not broken.use a dictionary if you dont believe.
    Yeah or it has had it balls removed, so it has neither the bite nor bark of a non-fixed blade.

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