(I'm not going to tell people where to get or who I got the knife from so please don't even ask)
Here are pictures of a fake Regular Sebenza next to a real Sebenza for the purpose of indicating what to look for in a knife that is not a genuine Chris Reeve knife. The fake CRK knives have been getting closer and closer over the last few years and I think they are getting to a stage where people, especially those new to CRK, could end up paying full price for a knife that is not made by CRK.
As you can see the shape of the handle is very close indeed, it's actually tough to pick out any difference in the shape. The pivot and screws are also very close to the genuine knives on outword appearance. The clip is close too, but one thing that is still obviously different to the original. The lack of CR logo is clearly telling but genuine sterile Sebenzas do exist.
The closer shots of the knife show that on outward appearance the details and finish on the handle slabs have been matched very closely. The jimping on the handle is again as close as it can be, I can see no difference in over all shape.
While the handle shape is near exact there are things that one can still pick out in the finish. The chamfering is neat and uniform but not as clean as on a genuine Sebenza. It also not an exact match when compaired with the second scale. There are still some machining marks visible on the outside edge of the lock bar.
The blade is one thing that is more obviously spotted as fake. The blade has a tumbled finish, rounded spine and shallow hollow grind, but the overall shape is not quite right and there are a number of other issues one can pick out. The thumb stud is close in shape but the blue colour is off and it sits very slightly higher as it has a thicker base. You can also see that the back of the blade where the stud comes through there is no chamfer on the hole or stud. The jimping on the blade looks similar but is not a match to the particlar knife I have and is also a little uneven on the tops of the teeth due to finishing it looks like. The grind is even over all but at the choil area you can see it doesn't quite match and it's not finished too well. The blade also has faint, buffed out grind (machining) marks along the full length. The edge bevel, while making for a sharp knife, is a belt finish and not as cleanly done as on the genuine knives.
The genuine knife is top, fake is bottom.
The genuine knife is bottom, fake is top.
Last edited by Haze; 07-06-2012 at 08:20 PM.
Last edited by Haze; 02-13-2012 at 12:55 PM.
These pictures show the internals of the fake knife. The fit of the knife is good but not great, all the parts fit and the bushing works in that you can tighten the pivot all the way down with out blade play or the blade being too stiff to open. The blade sits slightly off center when closed and lock up is early (~20%) but shows no play.
The washers and bushing edges have clear and obvious sanding marks going in several directions. This is from the attempted fitting of the knife. The stop pin cover and back spacer are again essentially same as the real knife but just a little rough. The back spacer (and probably thumb stud) also seems to have been painted rather than anodised.
The inside of the scales has no dating code at all and is totally blank as far as text of any sort, the blade is also free of any sort of markings.
It's clear to see that the lock bar has not been heat treated as they are on the real Sebenza. I do notice that they have used a ceramic detent ball though. One last thing that I noticed that was different is the thread on the screws. They look the same on the outside but the fake knife has a shorter screw with a tighter thread, on this particular knife anyway.
The real Sebenza screw is the one on the left.
The outward look of the fake knives will only get closer as they refine things. Thankfully when this knife is dismantled it starts to look less like a CR Sebenza. All the parts are there they just have a poor degree of finish. That is the problem though, it's pretty much just the finish. The materials are another obvious difference, but at the end of the day how many people can pick something up and say with 100%ness exactly what it's made of ?
The thing that worries me about this knife is that it's a copy of an old knife. They got a good bit of it right and the things wrong with the knife could either be fixed or covered up with out that much hassle. The old style Regular handle scales with the lines marked round the out side was something I was not expecting to see. The blade aslo has no markings like one would see on a BG-42 blade that one might expect to find in that handle style......and I don't really like where that is going.
I hope this helps people spot the fakes be it new comers to CRK or not. I think it's worth keeping on top of what is happening on that side of the market so we can all keep our selves and everyone else as informed as possible.
Last edited by Haze; 02-13-2012 at 02:06 PM.
WOW, Thanks HAZE. These are getting tougher and tougher to tell. Especially for those new to CRK or looking for that first one even.
Its going to come down to truly trusting who your buying from and if the deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. Never hurts to ask as many questions and ask for as many pics as you need before buying. If they refuse, thats for first clue.
Thanks Again HAZE. If you have more pics, Please post them. The better informed the buyer is, the better off he is.
I can only see the images in post 2 unless those are the only ones posted It is scary how close the fake is to the original!
Does the fake still have a detent hole in the lockbar? That is one quick way to verify.
me too, only 4 pics in post n2
does it have BD card, box? that should be something that makes you prudent huh?
really hard to tell, for me at least, machining marks on the blade are the only thing that make me think "fake"
The pics should all be up now, there are 15 in total......sorry I went for a quick cup of tea in the middle there.
I'll post a picture of the box later on, it's nothing like the original CRK box and it came with no literature........ I've seen many CRKs sold with no box or papers though.
How are the tolerances on the pivot area and to tell you the truth, I would use the crap out of the fake to test the lock and see how it wears, if it is heat treated, geometry, blade lock interface etc.
Wow, thanks indeed Haze. The somewhat more metric thread pitch on the plated-looking screws, and the lack of date stamping on the inside of the handles were the immediate tell-tale for me, but that was only after knowing on the front end it was a copy.
I'm curious, what materials are they using? Does the copy have CR on the front handle slab?
That detent appears to have cut quite the groove in the blade tang. Definitely not as pronounced on the real thing.
“Life is full of joy, pain, adversity, and outright mistakes. It's not these things, rather how we deal with and learn from these things that defines us." -HSN
The fit is OK and is on par with most production companies to be honest. The blade is heat treated and is, according to the ever acurate scratch test, about as hard as a CRK. I have no idea of the actual steel type but it's supposed to be D2. I have been flicking the knife and not being very nice to it and so far the lock bar has traveled an extra 5% or so in a couple of weeks. It isn't going to be seing any pocket time so I'll just have to cut up a pile of cardboard one night to see what the performance is like.
The only pics I cant see is the first ones in your first post.
Talk about tough to tell in many aspects unless the proper pics are taken. When taken apart, there are lost of ways to tell, but when together, it makes it tougher. Just sucks in general overall for CRK.
[Edited, as all photos are visible now.]
Thanks for the detailed analysis, it's extremely helpful.
Last edited by xtal; 02-13-2012 at 06:14 PM.
Not sure what's up with the pics as I can see them, but I have tried reposting them. Let me know if you still can't see any of the pics. There should be 5 in each of the first 3 posts.
I can see all of the pics. It's so close it's frightening. The fake Sebenza in your example has the blue thumbstud throughout, correct?
was this one recently purchased? I know i hate to say this but since crk no longer makes the regular style then this might be a decent alternative. how much was it? I dont condone the activity but it is so close to the original it might be a good feel for the original.`
I am amazed at how close that fake is to the real thing. I fear that many people could be fooled by that one, even for someone how may already own a sebenza it would be very difficult to pick most of those faults just by looking at it on line.
Thanks for the post Haze, it serves as a good reminder.
By the pictures of the assembled knives, it is difficult to tell the difference. Is the fake more obvious when you actually hold it in your hand?
I know nuh-thing.
that is a damn good fake could have screwed me for sure
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