"which knife is better for SD" threads = premeditation?

[res1cue]

Infamousone's multiple threads got me thinking... if you started a thread here about knives for SD, especially if you named a specific knife, then later bought that knife, then used it in a SD situation, and say the guy died.

Could some gung-ho ADA make a case for premeditation based on an internet thread?

We all hope for a more balanced legal system, but with the world going the way it is, I feel like that would totally be a possibility in some areas (or with some people)

Any LEO's/lawyers/judges want to weigh in on this?

[HeavyHanded]

I am not a LEO, judge, or lawyer.

Premeditation in this case would only apply to states that prohibit the carrying of a knife for SD whether it be lawful or unlawful. Many more states make it perfectly legal to carry a knife for lawful SD. Premeditation, if proven, might lead to a misdemeanor weapons possession charge in one of the former states. When it comes to justification for actual use of deadly force, the circumstances are supposed to be looked at independent of the tool used. Any charges related to lawfully defending yourself with an "illegal" weapon are a separate issue. There's a lot of precedent at the appellate level establishing this principle. Not that a prosecutor won't make the attempt, but if your judge isn't biased and your lawyer is any good, that sort of tack won't go far in court.

[djjonny]

I's the users responsibility to check if the relevant knife is lawful or not.

Don't quote me on this, but I think a thread could only be used as evidence if the DA could get proof the account belongs to the person in question.

[willseeyalater]

When you post on a forum your comments and thoughts are out there. Not much different then firing a bullet into the sky and not knowing where it is going to land except bullets eventually land and are no longer live. Internet posts can keep going and going. Some lawyer somewhere is sure to use a comment to establish their case, that is their job.

[Gollnick]

Premeditation is a factor in murder, not self-defense.

[Ossa1970]

This is my 2 cents, being a LEO for 30 years. In most cases, I say most cases, people who use any weapon against another say self defense. Unless it is 100 percent verified as such, it's up to the D/A to prove otherwise. An Internet thread could be used against you to prove your state of mind, or impeach your testimony. Many cases of SD are charged as homicide, and it's up to the defense bring reasonable doubt into play. So premeditation could be a factor depending what is said on the Internet to disprove SD.

That would be no different than using something you said in public or to someone to show what your state of mind was . Proving you belong to a thread is not that hard, computer forensic specialists can easily track what you did on your computer.

Bottom line be careful what you say it may be used against you. That does not mean its right, but it is a fact of life.

This is my perspective, and may not apply in all states but it most certainly does in my state. Watch court TV or any of the true crime channels and see what's been done in the past.

Hope this makes things a little more clear.

[Semper Fi1985]

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard of evidence required for premeditation, SD is justifiable and you can always argue in court.

[Dr Maclean]

Premeditation is a factor in murder, not self-defense.

This ^

[killgar]

I think as long as you don't say anything stupid like "Man, I just got this new knife, I can't wait to stab someone with it." you SHOULD be allright (but keep reading).

If you do use a knife in a legitimate self-defense situation and you have made a statement like that and it can be found and traced back to you, YES, it CAN be used against you. Even if it was just a joke on your part.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have done time. And I spent a LOT of money on a lawyer. Here's a very good piece of advice that I learned- If you are ever arrested for using a weapon, even if you know that your actions were 100% justifiable, if you have a home computer GET RID OF YOUR HARD DRIVE! And I don't mean in your trash, I mean GET RID OF IT! If you don't want to destroy and dispose of your computer, have a very trusted friend or family member hold it for you. Don't try to hide it in your own home.

Take it from someone who knows, even good people who do the right thing can get screwed by the so called "justice system". Prosecuters are VERY AMBITIOUS and if they see a chance to put another conviction on their record they won't hesitate to charge you. And they won't give a rats ass if they send someone to prison who truly doesn't deserve to go. They won't care if you have a family to take care of.

Even if you think that there is nothing on your computer that could hurt you, DON'T TAKE THE CHANCE! You simply don't know what a prosecuter will use or how they will twist things around to make you look bad to a jury.

For the record, nothing I've ever said on the internet was ever used against me. But I took my lawyers advice anyways and destroyed and disposed of my hard drive once I was released on bail.

[hank_rearden]

i wanted to start a thread on how best to cocneal a knife but decided against it. other topics like how to make non-metallic knives are still taboo over at makers' forum.

[res1cue]

This is my 2 cents, being a LEO for 30 years. In most cases, I say most cases, people who use any weapon against another say self defense. Unless it is 100 percent verified as such, it's up to the D/A to prove otherwise. An Internet thread could be used against you to prove your state of mind, or impeach your testimony. Many cases of SD are charged as homicide, and it's up to the defense bring reasonable doubt into play. So premeditation could be a factor depending what is said on the Internet to disprove SD.

That would be no different than using something you said in public or to someone to show what your state of mind was . Proving you belong to a thread is not that hard, computer forensic specialists can easily track what you did on your computer.

Bottom line be careful what you say it may be used against you. That does not mean its right, but it is a fact of life.

This is my perspective, and may not apply in all states but it most certainly does in my state. Watch court TV or any of the true crime channels and see what's been done in the past.

Hope this makes things a little more clear.

That's what I always thought... it always made me cringe seeing so many "which knife for self defense" threads.. might be an overdone topic for us, but to the average juror, that might sound crazy!

[Nonprophet]

IT's no different that martial artist discussing which knife they would use and why, nor would it be any different than asking if hollow points are better SD rounds for a gun. AS long as you don't say you want to kill someone and are looking for the best knife to do it. Then you're probably ok. Will they still try to use it? Possibly. Will it be effective, as long as you use some sense in what you're saying you're probably ok. At the end of the day, I truly don't care because if I, or anyone else, get to the point that I have to actually use a knife on someone I'm going to be able to articulate a real good case for self defense. Now if you can't do that, and you got on here and talked about the pros of the gutripper killsalot as your weapon of choice because it could gut a human in four seconds then that is probably going to be considered a mitigating circumstance and just plain won't look good, thus harming your defense argument.

[Rmfcasey]

By this reasoning carrying any "weapon " at all would make you a criminal. While I do see the point that many aggressors may claim self defense i still would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Rmfcasey

[Fanglekai]

People get in trouble for things they post on facebook and other forums. This one isn't any different. If a person kills another and claims self defense, you can imagine the lawyer is going to google the defendant and if his/her name pops up on bladeforums, you can bet posts will be read. If you use your real identity and post things on public forums, whatever you post may come back to haunt you.

[eccvets]

Many cases of SD are charged as homicide, and it's up to the defense bring reasonable doubt into play. .

what happened to innocent until proven guilty? I didnt know we lived in iran or iraq!

its sorta like saying you can rape a woman and then charge her with the crime (yes this happens in the middle east!).

[eccvets]

i still would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Rmfcasey

+1, rather be alive then dead. espeically when its always more like 6 vs 1 in real life and a knife will at least let you run away.

[killgar]

what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I can assure you, it doesn't exist. Hate to say it but "innocent until proven guilty" is just a saying used in this country to give the US criminal justice system the appearance of actually being about justice and fairness.

The prosecuter already considers you guilty. Many couldn't care less if your guilty or innocent, only if they can convince a jury to vote guilty. Many judges couldn't care less either. Judges have seen so many scumbags come through their courtroom that they get cynical and just assume that everyone is guilty, a liar, and a scumbag. And chances are, even your own lawyer thinks you're guilty. Defense lawyers get pretty cynical too.

Basically, if you're arrested and charged with a crime in this country, YOU ARE SCREWED. Securing your freedom will be an uphill battle. People are rarely able to see above there own prejudices. And lets face it, when a person is arrested for a crime and they are shown on tv or seen in court in handcuffs and chains, wearing jailhouse issued clothes, most people, your prospective jurors included, automatically assume that you must be guilty.

You are in fact pressumed guilty until you can convince a jury to vote not guilty.

[broe]

I was always told by my grandfather,"Do it...don't tell us about it."

I think this is good advice here. Don't go and put it out there you want an EDC knife or firearm for SD....just do it, get training, and for heaven's sake, keep your mouth shut. Tell the officer you had the knife for utility use to cut stuff and had to use it in this case to defend yourself as this is what you had. When he stopped...you got away. Nothing else. You won't see pictures of my vest set up with weapons stacked on it or me holding it showing my face waving that new full auto carbine in my hands. I can't understand that. Good idea to discuss it first though.

[djjonny]

I take back my earlier reply. I'm an IT tech career wise.

Based on what will killgar said about the getting rid of your hdd.
If you using windows, Tracking someones internet usage is as simple as:
using putting the hdd in any box
Use Hirens boot CD to check the version of windows

If XP:
Repair windows installation (if motherboard is different to the pc the hdd came from
If repaired use hirens boot cd. To crack his Windows password
Login to windows and check his internet cache
As you know browsers save your logins if you don't log off and cache your pages so they open faster

If Vista/7:

Connect HDD to any PC with same OS as a slave drive
copy all the old user directory folder contents (c:\user\[user name]) to new new user directory folder contents
Manually go the internet cache folder (browser dependent) to check activity
Open browser to check.

Done it many times to catch porn users who tried to cover their tracks

Also formatting the hdd is not enough. although insanely difficult. Data recovery specialists can still recover all the cached pages and user data

That's why every once in a while clear you browser cache and don't save passwords to sites that need. Remember them and type them in everytime
also always log off when you done.
If the DA gets hold of your hdd it will be a lot harder for them.

Sorry for long story but point its best to destroy your HDD as Killgar said.
If you have sensitive data you can't lose like accounts.... etc make sure you always have a backup and NEVER copy any data relating to weapon purchase's, any conbat training fees ....etc there

I don't know everything windows and network wise so open to corrections, but that is the basics of how your usage will and can be tracked
It does get more technical and involved