Jim, please note that some of the most highly regarded kitchen knives (for starters) are made from these primitive low alloy steels like O1 and 52100 and crusty old simple stainless like AEB-L. Likewise, i have seen a couple of instances where PROPERLY heat treated low alloy steel like O1 was able to compete head to head with CPM M4 in the Blade Sports cutting championship. The issue with Randall is how they treat their O1.
Blade Sports in no way goes to normal use of any knife or steel, the runs are VERY short so just about any properly HTed steel that's worth making a knife out of will perform.
It's more about the Cutters (Pure Talent) and those specially designed knives than it is the steel they are made out of.
I have had no issues with using my Randall's. There is nothing wrong with their heat treat either, I don't see you stating anything more than your opinion in that regard Joe.
Why does all this steel talk keep going, and going, and going. "Is Busse the new Randall" has nothing to do with steel, but more with history.
It's Spring, Ken.
The Energizer Bunny has emerged from his hole and is bouncing merrilly around the landscape.
Excess energy, I guess.
"There is a 5th dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition." R. Serling [Jamie (Doc V)]
No, they are not.
I know nuh-thing.
High carbon or not, 440B is still 440B, not a performance benchmark, compared to newer alloys. If you go by specs, 440A is also, "high-carbon stainless" steel 440B has a bit more Carbon in it and that's all. In theory, two alloys with identical composition could be 440A and 440B, with exactly 0.75%C.
I'm not quite sure I understand what your argument is. Nobody is questioning neither Randalls popularity, nor the fact that lots of people are happy with them. Neither of those facts(unfortunately) can be used as an argument to prove their knives are using high performance steels.
The choice of steel is also not an argument against them being high performance knives. Unless Swamp Rat in 52100 and Scrapyard in S-7 get dinged with having the same lousy wear resistance that no undisclosed mystical heat treat will ever change. INFI also does nothing wonderful as far as wear resistance goes. If not degraded for such, then these knives are high performance in metrics other than how much cardboard can be cut for absolutely no reason without a couple swipes on a sharpening rod. A quite literal estimation of 99% of the world's population does not need vanadium in their knife steels, and never even handle any such steels.
Yeah, well, mines BIGGER than yours! Mines HARDER than yours! And mine PENETRATES better than yours!
We're still talking about knives, right?
If one benchmarks from AISI 420 point, sure 440B will be a good performer.
This whole thread is like arguing whether or not Moses was the new Noah or is Mohamed the next Christ or is Kora the next Ang (now there is a obscure reference for you). In the Original Post the question was never about design, steel, performance or even quality. The Question was will the price of Busse's knives take off in a manner similar to Randell knives. The answer to this is not as easy as predicting what the Composite New York Stock Exchange will be trading at next week, next year or in a decade (Busse, Randell and the NYSX will all likely but up in a decade). If guessing how a fast or how high a Busse knife will go for could be determined here we could all be rich men on a relatively small investment.
Quality, Performance, Value may influence a products place in the market and history but they are not a sure indicator of what consumers will decide is the value of a product. It's an old saw but Tulips were never worth what was paid at the top of their market and GM was never as worthless as was paid at the bottom it's market.
So there you have it, Randall folks have taste and experience, and BUSSE folks are impressed with the shiny stuff under the hood rather than their driving skills.
Can we all stop with the silly word games gents, anyone with a notion can come up with relatively pointless posts that add nothing to this thread. This is the wrong venue for amateur night comedy skits at happy hour.
OK that's enough. Mr Ankerson, you know its is about the heat treatment. There are elemental properties that matter and you know that, INFI is in this category because they have a unique HT technique.
Low Alloy steels are not exempt from performance because their elemental statistics are relatively low compared to super steel stats. Bob Cramer can make basic steels perform at very high levels; as did F.J. Richtig who reportedly forged in 1095 (or maybe another carbon steel) and if you do not know what he could do with his knives and in what year (note the available technology), than you should read up on him.
HT is the key to performance. better steel is the key to achieving higher performance with high HT standards. If you do not optimize both of them, than the discussion is baseless and mis leads the youngin's
Between INFI and 01, What got do with stainless steel? I'm expecting very soon to talk about titanium and aluminum alloy too.
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