Are we scared or so?

[crafty]

The level of naive thoughts here is insane. You do realize that the difference between you and whatever family just suffered a home invasion on the news is luck right? Its morally reprehensible to be unable to protect you and yours. And I'm not talking knives or guns here, but just the state of mind you have to be in to make that statement.

I'm trying to exaggerate it of course to get a discussion going. Seems to work

You say "What are we afraid of?" I say, "As an armed citizen? Nothing."
Fortunately, you don't have buy guns and knives for self defense if you don't want to. Fortunately, I can.

Maybe I should be afraid of all the other armed citizens.
If everyone can just buy them, maybe that leaves no choice at a certain point for you to buy them as well.

To the OP: You ever been jacked? I guess not.
Good lookin out.

In the matter of fact I have run into some situations; got threatened in an alley with a knife by 2 big bad-looking guys, helped some guys out that just got a away from a knife fight, witnessed some organized crime stuff, burglary.

[mwerner]

I am still fond of the Bill Jordan quote "you don't need a gun very often. When you do, you need one real bad."

I'm an LEO, and I have a pistol on my bedstand every night. I live in an OK neighborhood but there's a tavern on the corner and drunks occasionally act up. We have had drug dealers in the apartments next door.... Things can happen.
As well, the wife is here alone much of the time, and she's partially disabled.
No doubt the two dogs are a good deterrent, but they are after all retrievers with nary a protective instinct.
(My ignorant hoosier (no offense to natives of Indiana, here it means "white trash") neighbors think the chocolate lab is a pit bull....)
I'm 65, have been in police work for 40+ of those years and I've never drawn my gun in anger. Could happen tomorrow.

[zuluninja]

wow. excellent post, sir! you summed it up on the first line, when you need one you need it really bad.

To the OP, it's better to be prepared and I agree knives are tools and maybe last ditch weapon. I was once involved in a pretty lopsided fight (me against the guys playing basketball : 8 + 2 watching the game that joined in the fun), I don't remember what knife I had in my pocket but the thought of pulling it out never crossed my mind, even when I got mashed up pretty good and required some stitching on a lip. If a weapon had been produced I would have pulled it out, but just bare fists flying was a no go. Most probaly I would end up losing it and recovering it a bit later somewhere in my body.

I have a .45 in my nightstand and sometimes there are knives in my bed when I go to sleep, but just because I'm too lazy to put them where they belong after I've been playing with them.

[RickJ]

The purchase, carry and usage of knives anesthetizes us from the emotional turmoil that resides within each of us. We make up excuses to justify it, by talking about blade steels and grinds and G10 and ergonomics. But its really all about feeling better. Knives, guns, multitools and flashlights allow us to manipulate our environments, and in so doing they distract us from our inner angst and the unspoken fear of living in an uncertain world. Some folks anesthetize themselves with booze or drugs or internet porn. We do it with Para 2's and Enduras.

Is it really just a coincidence that Charley Mike went from meth user to knifemaker? I think not.

Well said, I do not drink or smoke or use drugs, but I sure have a few knives and a few Guns, and yes I have inner angst and fear of an uncertain world, again very well said Powernoodle.

[klute]

I'm not implying you are not smart, or experienced ...not at all, but we have a saying here in America about a "liberal who got mugged" (that being someone who has adopted a more realistic, suspicious attitude towards his fellow man).

Agression is human nature, let's see that and move forward.
I actually agree with this as a permanent precept. Man can't be completely trusted no matter what philosophical underpinnings exist in society.
So if agression as a primary attribute is noted and accepted and so on then we can all at least live more honestly, let alone as men and not some wishy washy construct.

[Unistat76]

I'm trying to exaggerate it of course to get a discussion going. Seems to work

Oh, I see. You are a troll.

Maybe I should be afraid of all the other armed citizens.
If everyone can just buy them, maybe that leaves no choice at a certain point for you to buy them as well.

Except in the real world it's the criminals, not the legally armed citizens you have to worry about. The last time I checked, criminals never have any problem getting their hands on weapons, even in places where they are highly restricted. Of course if all weapons were eliminated we would be safe, except for the disabled. And women. And the elderly. And anyone smaller or weaker than their attacker.

In the matter of fact I have run into some situations; got threatened in an alley with a knife by 2 big bad-looking guys, helped some guys out that just got a away from a knife fight, witnessed some organized crime stuff, burglary.

Well if you got through all that ok without having to defend yourself, then I guess I'll just get rid of my guns and knives too.

[parbajtor]

Maybe it's a eurocentric thing. I carry a knife all the time, but it's a cutting tool for use, not for SD.
I learn (not so classical) Wing Chun for SD. My belief is that for the majority of occasions when you need to defend yourself by fighting,
the fight will be over before you've had a chance to deploy. If you've had enough forewarning to "get ready", you've had enough warning
to avoid the fight. I haven't been in a "real" fight for many years and a couple didn't go my way (or maybe they did, because I'm still here).
I've had a few "shape up" as if, but for "some unnamed reason" nothing happened
One of those I did the "what if, if only" thing that you do afterwards, but looking at it dispassionately, I've realised that even if I had a knife in my pocket,
I still wouldn't have had the time to deploy. The other thing is that reliance on a weapon is the way to defeat. Your mind is the weapon.
My home defence weapon is a pair of kamagong garrote and applied Baat Cham Dao techniques. I'm comfortable using them and have no worries
about second guessing how it'll look in court later. I'm leaving guns out of the equation because we don't see that much of them over here and
they're a bit of a liability at Close Quarters as it's basically about who gets the drop on whom.
A mind that is busy reaching/fumbling for a weapon is not a mind free enough to poke someone in the eye with a finger.
A mind that has a weapon in a pocket presents a different attitude than someone unarmed.
Almost anything can be a weapon it just needs imagination and opportunity. The best weapons are often the most unlikely.
With the exception of home invasion, if you're in a "situation" it's because you didn't see it coming and/or your ego is in the way.
The unlikely weapon balances the odds, because "they" won't see it coming either. But when you do act, do it decisively with conviction
and don't stop until they're "out".
Speak softly and BE the stick.
EDIT: For those who think I live in some soft fantasy world, I've looked down the wrong end of a barrel twice. One was a "home invasion" by a pair of junkies with a sawn off shotgun and a pistol, the previous occupants of our rented house had "grassed them up" to the police and they were looking for some payback for doing 18months inside. The second was while fitting some telephone lines at SO19 building in Basil St. (behind Harrods). Walked around the corner almost into a very jumpy Armed Response Officer. He scared me more than the junkies!

[ikuyadas]

Japanese newbies frequently ask "Opinel for SD" "OSI for campsite" "Ultimate shape/design for survival" in BBS. They tend to have no idea to use their knives for daily life, because their society hates to see ANY personal tools in citizen, and their police are seeking their SAK to get 100K yen charges even in Tsunami-devastated areas.

Here's not under WROL condition but psychos are horribly increasing everywhere. It makes difficult to protect my family if they don't take care of any dangers of themselves, that's when I sometimes need something tactical. But cane/stick would be much more efficient for me, and Deba is much more used in crimes, and collectors don't learn how to use them.

"Extremely high-tech" complex is also all around here, maybe customers want something apparently expensive.

[Unistat76]

I buy knives and make sure to carry at least seven at all times to fulfil my urban tactical sheepdawg emergency defensive EDC role. That vital role I play in society doesn't stop when I come home, so I make sure to have knives and weapons everywhere all over my place all the time, especially in the shower and by my bedside, because muggers are everywhere and you never know when a crack thirsty jenkem addict will hop out of your medicine cabinet, bent on culturally enriching your family. If it weren't for extreme tactical urban sheepdog emergency defensive (gawwwd forbid) EDC role users like me the world would be a WROL hellhole because the sheeple are stupid and ELL EEE OES are standing on a THIN BLUE LINE between us and chaos!

Reducto ad absurdium. We are not all Gecko45.

[Unistat76]

Your response was excellent, and perfectly answers every question of this type.
I will mention that Postal Service people do remember Royal Oak.
http://royaloak.patch.com/articles/a...stal-shootings

Thank you.

[Dorito Monk]

Oh, I see. You are a troll.

No, no, son, let me explain...

I'm being a troll.

He's just sparking a discussion.

Being new to the internet, I understand how you might have been confused. Seeing malicious intent where there was none, getting all frustrated and whatnot.

[Unistat76]

Maybe it's a eurocentric thing. I carry a knife all the time, but it's a cutting tool for use, not for SD.
I learn (not so classical) Wing Chun for SD. My belief is that for the majority of occasions when you need to defend yourself by fighting,
the fight will be over before you've had a chance to deploy. If you've had enough forewarning to "get ready", you've had enough warning
to avoid the fight. I haven't been in a "real" fight for many years and a couple didn't go my way (or maybe they did, because I'm still here).
I've had a few "shape up" as if, but for "some unnamed reason" nothing happened
One of those I did the "what if, if only" thing that you do afterwards, but looking at it dispassionately, I've realised that even if I had a knife in my pocket,
I still wouldn't have had the time to deploy. The other thing is that reliance on a weapon is the way to defeat. Your mind is the weapon.
My home defence weapon is a pair of kamagong garrote and applied Baat Cham Dao techniques. I'm comfortable using them and have no worries
about second guessing how it'll look in court later. I'm leaving guns out of the equation because we don't see that much of them over here and
they're a bit of a liability at Close Quarters as it's basically about who gets the drop on whom.
A mind that is busy reaching/fumbling for a weapon is not a mind free enough to poke someone in the eye with a finger.
A mind that has a weapon in a pocket presents a different attitude than someone unarmed.
Almost anything can be a weapon it just needs imagination and opportunity. The best weapons are often the most unlikely.
With the exception of home invasion, if you're in a "situation" it's because you didn't see it coming and/or your ego is in the way.
The unlikely weapon balances the odds, because "they" won't see it coming either. But when you do act, do it decisively with conviction
and don't stop until they're "out".
Speak softly and BE the stick.

While I agree that a proper defensive mindset requires good situational awareness and the knowlege that improvised weapons are always at hand, I disagree that that is always enough. A purpose built tool will always be more effective at it's task than an improvised one. The same is true with weapons. Also, your contention that one will not have time to deploy or that if one does, one can avoid trouble is just not accurate. Muggers can and do operate in pairs and teams.

You are speaking from a position and country where many self defense options are not available to you and where, if you do defend yourself, you are likely to be prosecuted. That is not the case over here. Don't try to pretend that the best options in your limited environment are the best options everywhere.

[Unistat76]

No, no, son, let me explain...

I'm being a troll.

He's just sparking a discussion.

Being new to the internet, I understand how you might have been confused. Seeing malicious intent where there was none, getting all frustrated and whatnot.

Exaggerating for the sake of provoking a response is the definition of a troll. Your post is just the definition of stupid.

[Dorito Monk]

Exaggerating for the sake of provoking a response is the definition of a troll. Your post is just the definition of stupid.

Hahaha, oh, dear.



You shouldn't take this stuff so seriously, my son, it's not good for you.

[klute]

Japanese newbies frequently ask "Opinel for SD" "OSI for campsite" "Ultimate shape/design for survival" in BBS. They tend to have no idea to use their knives for daily life, because their society hates to see ANY personal tools in citizen, and their police are seeking their SAK to get 100K yen charges even in Tsunami-devastated areas.

Here's not under WROL condition but psychos are horribly increasing everywhere. It makes difficult to protect my family if they don't take care of any dangers of themselves, that's when I sometimes need something tactical. But cane/stick would be much more efficient for me, and Deba is much more used in crimes, and collectors don't learn how to use them.

"Extremely high-tech" complex is also all around here, maybe customers want something apparently expensive.

Wow, interesting to see these aspects of Japan. I would get some good canes or staffs and train the whole family with them.
So why is it you think your society hates to see "any personal tools" there? I have my ideas why but i would like to hear yours.

Tools are what has brought degrees of civilization about. The world depends on tools. Is there a counter movement to this 'disdain for tools' in Japan?

There would be many people in the world who would support your position.

[Daddyo16]

What's the definition of paranoid?

It's someone who's more prepared than you.

Ask anyone who's ever been attacked either in their own home or on the street if they had any indication when they started out that day that their life would be threatened.

[parbajtor]

While I agree that a proper defensive mindset requires good situational awareness and the knowlege that improvised weapons are always at hand, I disagree that that is always enough. A purpose built tool will always be more effective at it's task than an improvised one. The same is true with weapons. Also, your contention that one will not have time to deploy or that if one does, one can avoid trouble is just not accurate. Muggers can and do operate in pairs and teams.

You are speaking from a position and country where many self defense options are not available to you and where, if you do defend yourself, you are likely to be prosecuted. That is not the case over here. Don't try to pretend that the best options in your limited environment are the best options everywhere.

I've lived (for a number of years) in 4 countries so far, England, Australia, NZ and South Africa (1998-2000) don't try to pretend "your violent criminals are nothing like our violent criminals" or try to define the limits of my environment. I have literally flown around the world 10 times not counting holidays, work trips or competing internationally. I've stayed in LA, Washington (DC & State), Portland, Oregon, skied in Colorado and spent a week in Chigaco. I have a modicum of first hand experience of a large number of very different environments. What have you done?

A sacrificial wallet with $20 and some old cards in, with no ego attached is more likely to have a positive outcome in a mugging. They usually do operate in teams and they normally "select" their victims. They very rarely enter a situation without having the "drop" on the target (both physically and psychologically). If you find yourself being caught "unawares" that weapon on your belt or in your pocket will be "burning" and your reactions will be different. The fact you were caught unawares (your failure to recognise the situation for what it was) will also be stoking your ego and your anger and you will not be in control of yourself or the situation. If they search you and find your weapon, you're screwed. If your ego prompts you to chase after them in some kind of revenge scenario, that also is reducing the odds of a positive outcome. I now live in a world where I rarely carry cash, just cards which I can cancel with a phone call 365/24/7. I do this so I don't have to feel guilty walking past all the talentless buskers, beggars and chuggers in the street. We have a welfare system so people don't have to resort to this kind of behaviour. There is no reason for me to treat any "approach" without the utmost suspicion. I'm not saying I'm infallible or even that I won't be caught unawares, but you don't make it to 50 without learning something.

[parbajtor]

What's the definition of paranoid?

It's someone who's more prepared than you.

Ask anyone who's ever been attacked either in their own home or on the street if they had any indication when they started out that day that their life would be threatened.

No, paranoid is living your whole life on the premis that you will be attacked at any moment and therefore missing out on all the good stuff that sweetens the intervals between the sh*t.

[harkamus]

Japanese newbies frequently ask "Opinel for SD" "OSI for campsite" "Ultimate shape/design for survival" in BBS. They tend to have no idea to use their knives for daily life, because their society hates to see ANY personal tools in citizen, and their police are seeking their SAK to get 100K yen charges even in Tsunami-devastated areas.

Here's not under WROL condition but psychos are horribly increasing everywhere. It makes difficult to protect my family if they don't take care of any dangers of themselves, that's when I sometimes need something tactical. But cane/stick would be much more efficient for me, and Deba is much more used in crimes, and collectors don't learn how to use them.

"Extremely high-tech" complex is also all around here, maybe customers want something apparently expensive.

Thank you for your insight. I prefer to be prepared as best as possible in case something happens, so I train. I also know that not everyone in my family trains, which makes it even more important for me in case I'm the last one around backed in a corner with my fam behind me.

An armed society is a polite society. -Robert Heinlein.

[Unistat76]

I've lived (for a number of years) in 4 countries so far, England, Australia, NZ and South Africa (1998-2000) don't try to pretend "your violent criminals are nothing like our violent criminals" or try to define the limits of my environment. I have literally flown around the world 10 times not counting holidays, work trips or competing internationally. I've stayed in LA, Washington (DC & State), Portland, Oregon, skied in Colorado and spent a week in Chigaco. I have a modicum of first hand experience of a large number of very different environments. What have you done?

A sacrificial wallet with $20 and some old cards in, with no ego attached is more likely to have a positive outcome in a mugging. They usually do operate in teams and they normally "select" their victims. They very rarely enter a situation without having the "drop" on the target (both physically and psychologically). If you find yourself being caught "unawares" that weapon on your belt or in your pocket will be "burning" and your reactions will be different. The fact you were caught unawares (your failure to recognise the situation for what it was) will also be stoking your ego and your anger and you will not be in control of yourself or the situation. If they search you and find your weapon, you're screwed. If your ego prompts you to chase after them in some kind of revenge scenario, that also is reducing the odds of a positive outcome. I now live in a world where I rarely carry cash, just cards which I can cancel with a phone call 365/24/7. I do this so I don't have to feel guilty walking past all the talentless buskers, beggars and chuggers in the street. We have a welfare system so people don't have to resort to this kind of behaviour. There is no reason for me to treat any "approach" without the utmost suspicion. I'm not saying I'm infallible or even that I won't be caught unawares, but you don't make it to 50 without learning something.

Ok, let first state that I didn't mean to rile you up and I apologize if it seemed I was attacking you personally. My point was that what works in one environment and culture is not always going to work in another, a point which you don't seem to support.

My other disagreement with you is when you state that purpose built self-defense tools are less useful than improvised ones. I disagree. So do the vast majority of self-defense trainers and experts. I also disagree that every situation can be defused by acquiescing. Certainly it's better to give up a few dollars than to get into a fight, but not every situation works out that way.

Do I try to practice situational awareness? Yes. Does that mean I can never be caught by surprise? No. I would rather have a weapon and a chance if a bad guy does not grant me the luxury of just walking away after taking my money. The truth is, if I am in a strong arm or armed robbery situation, I have know way of knowing what the final intentions of a criminal are. I am going to draw my weapon and fight. You can do what you want.

You want to know why guns replaced knives and kung-fu for primary self defense? It wasn't because "the fight was over before they could be deployed."

Gun>Sword & Board>Knife>Martial Arts>Nothing.