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Thread: 8Cr13mov VS 440C

  1. #1

    8Cr13mov VS 440C


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    After hours of searching online, I have yet to find a decent resource which will state the differences between good old 440c and 8Cr13Mov. To my knowledge 8cr is similar to AUS8. Is it the case that it will take more of a beating than 440C? What about edge holding qualities? One chip and the blade goes in the trash. Looking for a cheaper grade that will won't chip but will hold an edge for a long time.

    Thanks!

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    It's kind of like 440C with less carbon, so similar to 440B. The part about the edge chipping mostly has to do with the heat treatment; treat it too hard and it will chip, treat it too soft and it will roll. But because of the higher carbon content, 440C can be made more wear resistant than 8Cr13MoV.

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    8Cr13Mov basically = 440B, so if both are well heat treated, 440C will be a step up in edge holding, I wouldn't think either should have any problems chipping since neither should be especially high on the RC scale, I'm not sure about toughness, I would say 440C would also be better there, but I would say its going to depend more on heat treat and blade geometry how tough each blade is more than the actual steel since these two are fairly close to eachother in properties (its not like you're comparing S7's toughness to high hardness ZDP-189)

  4. #4
    I was told 8cr13mov was similar to Aus8??

    How would 14C28N compare to 8cr13mov and 440c?
    Last edited by finnman1; 03-22-2012 at 11:11 PM.

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    If the 14c28n is Kershaw's HT then it will be on par with a similarly optimal HT on any 440c. though with any 440 grade steel there will be variance not only in HT but also in content as the elements are within a certain range (carbon can be from .95-1.2%, Chromium 16-18%) Sandvik steels and japanese Aus steels are more precise and thus "cleaner" in practice
    Personally, I want any movie I see about a guy that travels back in time in a souped up DeLorean and meets his parents before they were married to have the appropriate guitar for the year, kinda blew the believability of the whole movie for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brets-ftw View Post
    If the 14c28n is Kershaw's HT then it will be on par with a similarly optimal HT on any 440c. though with any 440 grade steel there will be variance not only in HT but also in content as the elements are within a certain range (carbon can be from .95-1.2%, Chromium 16-18%) Sandvik steels and japanese Aus steels are more precise and thus "cleaner" in practice
    Not true.
    14C28N does not have the wear resistance of 440C.

    In my side-by-side testing, cutting manila rope using a draw cut technique, 14C28N performed on the order of AUS8, a decided step below the edge retention of 440C.

    That being said, I like Kershaw's 14C28N. It arguably takes a finer edge than AUS8 and as I said, holds that edge about as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by finnman1 View Post
    I was told 8cr13mov was similar to Aus8??

    How would 14C28N compare to 8cr13mov and 440c?
    Very similar in composition. In my testing I could not differentiate between them for edge retention.
    Spyderco's Sal Glesser said that the edge retention is about the same. He also said that in their salt spray testing, AUS8 did a bit better.
    Frank R

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    just to give everyone the all the steel specs list above:

    440C = 1% carbon, 17.5% chrome
    AUS-8 = 0.75% carbon, 14% chrome
    8Cr13Mov = 0.8% carbon, 13% chrome
    14C28N = 0.62% carbon, 14% chrome (0.11% nitrogen)

    to my knowledge, the 0.11% nitrogen in 14C28N steel aids in hardening the steel. so if you take that in to account, AUS-8, 8Cr13Mov and 14C28N should all have similar wear resistance. because 440C has more carbon and chrome, it will have some more chromium carbides, making it more wear resistant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnolimit View Post
    just to give everyone the all the steel specs list above:

    440C = 1% carbon, 17.5% chrome
    AUS-8 = 0.75% carbon, 14% chrome
    8Cr13Mov = 0.8% carbon, 13% chrome
    14C28N = 0.62% carbon, 14% chrome (0.11% nitrogen)

    to my knowledge, the 0.11% nitrogen in 14C28N steel aids in hardening the steel. so if you take that in to account, AUS-8, 8Cr13Mov and 14C28N should all have similar wear resistance. because 440C has more carbon and chrome, it will have some more chromium carbides, making it more wear resistant.
    Did not the exact specs, but this is a pretty good indicator of how they scale. 440C at 1% carbon, and 8Cr13MoV and Aus8 at about 0.8% carbon.

    9Cr14 is pretty good steel as I have seen in the BM Pika II, but I wonder if they will ever make a 10Cr?

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    Quote Originally Posted by res1cue View Post
    Did not the exact specs, but this is a pretty good indicator of how they scale. 440C at 1% carbon, and 8Cr13MoV and Aus8 at about 0.8% carbon.

    9Cr14 is pretty good steel as I have seen in the BM Pika II, but I wonder if they will ever make a 10Cr?
    There already are 10cr's, 11cr's, 12cr's, and a 13cr

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    Quote Originally Posted by kreole View Post
    There already are 10cr's, 11cr's, 12cr's, and a 13cr
    how come we never see them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by knarfeng View Post
    Not true.
    14C28N does not have the wear resistance of 440C.

    In my side-by-side testing, cutting manila rope using a draw cut technique, 14C28N performed on the order of AUS8, a decided step below the edge retention of 440C.

    That being said, I like Kershaw's 14C28N. It arguably takes a finer edge than AUS8 and as I said, holds that edge about as well.



    Very similar in composition. In my testing I could not differentiate between them for edge retention.
    Spyderco's Sal Glesser said that the edge retention is about the same. He also said that in their salt spray testing, AUS8 did a bit better.
    The key idea here is that the result was from YOUR testing. YOUR testing is completely unscientific at best. So in the future instead of claiming universal results from your test, realize that the backyard testing methodology you employ is nothing but a game.

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    Not all 440c are equal. Looking at CPM's website their 440 is different from cheaper versions. Their particle uniformity and distribution is top notch. Properly heat treated it should do as well as most any folding knife steel. I have heard good things about Boker's use of 440c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csmaz View Post
    The key idea here is that the result was from YOUR testing. YOUR testing is completely unscientific at best. So in the future instead of claiming universal results from your test, realize that the backyard testing methodology you employ is nothing but a game.
    Have you done any testing? Do you have any other results?

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    You should probably take the opportunity to get to know some of the members here before you start into this sort of reply


    Quote Originally Posted by csmaz View Post
    The key idea here is that the result was from YOUR testing. YOUR testing is completely unscientific at best. So in the future instead of claiming universal results from your test, realize that the backyard testing methodology you employ is nothing but a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csmaz View Post
    The key idea here is that the result was from YOUR testing. YOUR testing is completely unscientific at best. So in the future instead of claiming universal results from your test, realize that the backyard testing methodology you employ is nothing but a game.
    You literally have no clue what you are talking about. Learn about his tests.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by csmaz View Post
    The key idea here is that the result was from YOUR testing. YOUR testing is completely unscientific at best. So in the future instead of claiming universal results from your test,

    realize that the backyard testing methodology you employ is nothing but a game.
    I've been around long enough to know Frank has good game.





    To the OP... 440C is still a really good steel when heat treated right. Given the same knife with those two steels, I would go with the 440C. But I only have one knife with 8Cr13mov, so I really haven't had the chance to test it well.
    Last edited by Ken44; 03-23-2012 at 01:44 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddogg774 View Post
    Not all 440c are equal. Looking at CPM's website their 440 is different from cheaper versions. Their particle uniformity and distribution is top notch. Properly heat treated it should do as well as most any folding knife steel. I have heard good things about Boker's use of 440c.
    Are there any production knife makers who utilize "CPM 440c"?? If so, is it labeled as such, or just as 440c? I seem to hardly ever even see this steel around any more, unless you are dealing with certain custom makers. I guess it's just a cost thing? People either want the slightly "worse" steels for much cheaper, or the higher end "super steels" for a bit more??

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    Quote Originally Posted by res1cue View Post
    Did not the exact specs, but this is a pretty good indicator of how they scale. 440C at 1% carbon, and 8Cr13MoV and Aus8 at about 0.8% carbon.
    Both spyderco's and CRKT's websites list AUS-8 as having 0.70-0.75% carbon.

    Both sites also list chromium as 13-14.5%, I just rounded it to 14%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knarfeng View Post
    Not true.
    14C28N does not have the wear resistance of 440C.

    In my side-by-side testing, cutting manila rope using a draw cut technique, 14C28N performed on the order of AUS8, a decided step below the edge retention of 440C.

    That being said, I like Kershaw's 14C28N. It arguably takes a finer edge than AUS8 and as I said, holds that edge about as well.



    Very similar in composition. In my testing I could not differentiate between them for edge retention.
    Spyderco's Sal Glesser said that the edge retention is about the same. He also said that in their salt spray testing, AUS8 did a bit better.
    Both my Boker Nopal and Kershaw Skyline seemed to lose their edge around the same time, but this is from misc. usage not something more standardized like what you and Ankerson do. Either way Im glad you could provide a more definitive answer for the OP.
    Personally, I want any movie I see about a guy that travels back in time in a souped up DeLorean and meets his parents before they were married to have the appropriate guitar for the year, kinda blew the believability of the whole movie for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodeyesniper View Post
    Are there any production knife makers who utilize "CPM 440c"?? If so, is it labeled as such, or just as 440c? I seem to hardly ever even see this steel around any more, unless you are dealing with certain custom makers. I guess it's just a cost thing? People either want the slightly "worse" steels for much cheaper, or the higher end "super steels" for a bit more??
    I've been looking and I can't find any manf. Labeling their knives with CPM 440c...but that would be cool.

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