Trayvon Martin case, unarmed teen shot by neighborhood watchman.

[Mr. Clean]

Some people will see racism everywhere I suppose. <shrug> And I'm not surprised as this is exactly what the MSM is trying to do IMO (as the article I found the info at points out).

I found the list at the Miami Examiner here, and not at the link that you found.

You're right, I apologize. Literally an hour later more excerpts came out but my Google-fu found nothing. It was perhaps in a weakened state.

I still find it odd that even as recent as today, people are leading others to believe that Zimmerman was white.

Vigilante justice should not be met with vigilante justice and those provoking that should receive punishment from the law too! How ignorant one has to be to order the death of another!

[swatbwana]

Either way, 250lb dude at 5' 9" vs a 140 6' 3" 17 year old kid in a scuffle, my bet is on the 250lb dude. Plus the fact that the kid had been talking to his gf before and was worried about a "strange guy" following him. Even the call that Zimmerman made sounds vague in reasoning. Either way, I am still leaning toward Zimmerman initiating the confrontation. Whether or not he was justified, I am not qualified to decide.

My bet is on the guy that can fight...

A 250 fat guy will get owned by a 130lb in shape fighter , watch a 40 lb pitbull destroy a great dane. Weight means nothing in fights unless they are BOTH skilled and in similar shape.
Again we can all agree that Zimmerman was a wannabe, nosey tool, and he put this chain of events in motion due to his bad judgement, the question is what laws did he violate, besides common sense...which is not so common.

[jdm61]

A couple of other interesting legal points.
Under the Florida law relating to the use of deadly force, there are a couple of outs even for someone who might be considered an "aggressor" like many feel that Mr. Zimmerman was. One is that the victim escalates the confrontation to the point where the "aggressor" has a reasonable fear of death or grievous bodily harm. The other is if the aggressor attempts to withdraw once the feces hits the rotary ventilating device. IF, in fact, it was Zimmerman calling for help while he was being beaten on the ground, that certainly gives rise to one, if not both of those defenses.
Another issue that hopefully will never come up in this matter is this. The law in Florida also permits a citizen to use deadly force if it is the only reasonable way to stop the commission of a forcible felony. Where this could be relevant is if we see a situation like in the Rodney King case where there are riots because ARSON is a forcible felony under Florida law. Remember also that the stand your ground law was passed specifically to address issues bought to light in the aftermath of the hurricanes of 2004 where there was apparently some looting of homes going on.

[ec9]

I wouldn’t bet to hard on the laws changing in FL at least. The Governor has launched a team to investigate but only to appease the mob for the time being. If anything this is going to spawn some more racial tension here. It leaves a bad taste for us CWL holders here who carry to protect life not take it.

Judging by his size I’m betting he wasn’t allergic to any type of food MJF.

[hostileuniverse]

In this. Case would you continue following someone if the police say don't bother?

This keeps getting pointed out as having some relevance. Have you ever heard of a situation where the dispatcher says "yes, go get 'em!" No, the 911 operator ALWAYS advises people do nothing, no matter what crime is being committed, and yes, I realize in this case there was no crime being committed yet.

[timcsaw]

My brief comments in blue;

Timcsaw: I really don't get why you're saying that we should withhold judgement while simultaneously jumping through mental hoops to point out scenarios in which Zimmerman is entirely the victim. (<-Because so many here are presenting conjecture as "facts" without supporting evidence in order to "jump through hoops" to present Zimmerman as entirely guilty.) Seems kind of off. While I agree that we should withhold judgement until we have all the facts, everything about this stinks. What we do know for sure is that he (<-legally) followed a 17 year old kid (<-Yes, a strong, athletic, 17 year old, six foot two, football playing, young man.) whose only crime was looking suspicious (which in this context seems to mean being a young black kid dressed in a hoody) (<-Conjecture. Thats how YOU think Zimmerman saw him, but it was dark, Martin had his hood up, so you can't KNOW how Zimmerman "saw him".), confronted him, and shot him. While it's arguable that he may have been justified in his actions by the letter of the law, he shot and killed an unarmed (<-Zimmerman couldn't have KNOWN he was unarmed at the time.) 17 year old (<-who may have mounted him on his back on the ground and was hitting him.) who wasn't doing anything wrong (<-except perhaps, the beating him in the face part.) after harassing (<- Conjecture... following isn't "harassing" because if it is, I "harass" people in the grocery store every week.) him. He may be protected by the law, but what he did was wrong IMO, regardless of who was on top in the scuffle (keep in mind, a 6'2" kid who weighs 140 pounds is ridiculously thin, especially compared to the 200+ pound Zimmerman...If Zimmerman does that piss poor of a job protecting himself with his own hands, maybe he should stay off the streets and not try to be batman). (<-So you see no possibility of danger to an older, fat man pinned on his back, mounted and being hit by a 6 ft. 2 in., lean, strong, fast, athletic young man who plays competitive football? IF Martin was on top of Zimmerman hitting him, as Zimmerman says (and one witness and physical evidence may confirm, couldn't a lean, 6'2", young, athletic, football player get off the "fat, beat-up, broke-nose, bleeding, old man" and sprint quickly away to safety? Was he shot in the back while running away? Why didn't Martin call the police and report that he was being "chased" and "harrassed"? instead of talking to his girlfriend? <--I'm being a bit facicious with this last bit to show how "a spin machine" can work in the opposite direction? )

I don't have enough information to know who was in the wrong here so I won't pretend to. MAYBE Zimmerman deserves to burn for this, or maybe he was justified in his actions, I don't know so I won't plead his case OR Martin's either way... I do think it fair and necessary however, to consider BOTH sides of the story as plausible.

[timcsaw]

You're right, I apologize. Literally an hour later more excerpts came out but my Google-fu found nothing. It was perhaps in a weakened state.

I still find it odd that even as recent as today, people are leading others to believe that Zimmerman was white.

Vigilante justice should not be met with vigilante justice and those provoking that should receive punishment from the law too! How ignorant one has to be to order the death of another!

Not a problem and thanks Mr. Clean. Whatever the outcome, I do hope that justice prevails. Both individuals and their families deserve justice.

[ron_m80]

This is the key to the whole situation. By what right did he get out of his car and confront anyone? Who does he think he is?
So far as I've read, including the local police chief resigning, this smells like a coverup.

Agreed, the early reports indicated that Zimmerman, was lined up to go to the police academy, and likely had a very personal relationship with the uniforms on scene.

This was not a "stand your ground" issue, the issue was created when Zimmerman exited his vehicle and pursued.

If someone approached me, accusing me of being "up to something" or "on drugs" I will have some pretty choice words for them as well. If he were to try and step it up a notch because he was carrying (as it seems he did according to the 911 tape) I don't think my knee-jerk reaction would be to back down. If someone on a dark street, in the rain, got out of their vehicle giving me the stink eye, and started following me, I think running would definitely cross my mind.

[bobusx]

Well, on the Zimmermann being white thing, by most gov't forms I have seen (mostly military), hispanic/latino is not listed as a race, but as an ethnicity. So you have to check white or black as well as hispanic/latino. I know, because I am listed as a white hispanic, and I am Puerto Rican.

[powernoodle]

For only the 5th time in its history, according to a Lexus/Nexus search, the New York Times used the phrase "white hispanic" to describe the person they are trying to portray as evil.

If the purported "victim" was hispanic, would the Times characterize him as "white"? Hell no. This whole "story", which is no story at all given the number of people who die on a daily basis in America, is nothing more than a fake story to promote and encourage racial division, all stoked by race mongers like the New York Times, the dieing mainstream media, adulterous liar Jesse Jackson, and their kind.

Thats the real story.

[ron_m80]

..... the dieing mainstream media, ......Thats the real story.

Agreed, I think alot of people forgot, that back around 2009 most major media outlets were going bankrupt. A consistant sprinkle of sensationalism and superlatives, with open ended questions sure seems to have turned the tide for them.

LA Times
Tribune's media

If you follow what happened to the media outlets that filed chapter 11, they were all mostly gobbled up by Time Warner the last couple of years.

[swatbwana]

Agreed, the early reports indicated that Zimmerman, was lined up to go to the police academy, and likely had a very personal relationship with the uniforms on scene.

This was not a "stand your ground" issue, the issue was created when Zimmerman exited his vehicle and pursued.

If someone approached me, accusing me of being "up to something" or "on drugs" I will have some pretty choice words for them as well. If he were to try and step it up a notch because he was carrying (as it seems he did according to the 911 tape) I don't think my knee-jerk reaction would be to back down. If someone on a dark street, in the rain, got out of their vehicle giving me the stink eye, and started following me, I think running would definitely cross my mind.

I know you think this is "the key issue" but it's not.
Zimmerman can only be judged on what he knew when he used the force he did , him following and doing whatever is a very distant set up to the main issues.


Some men ask "can I " the smart man asks " should I " Zimmerman was not a smart man.

[Gollnick]

Gentlemen,

Please keep in mind that this is the Current Events forum, not the Political Forum. We may discuss this as a current event, but not the political ramifications of it.

[Codger_64]

Whether or not there is racism involved as a motive for the confrontation and subsequent shooting is indeed a valid point. Federal involvement hinges upon that very factor. The PD itself has a very checkered past with at least two or three major incidents of injustice in just the past few years. If it is shown by Federal investigation that race was not a factor, the case is best resolved by referal to State investigators and State prosecution if a grand jury indicts.

Again I ask though, when are they going to arrest the NBP leader who issued a $10,000 contract on the life of Zimmerman? This is a crime in every state as far as I know. And not a petty one.

[Mr. Clean]

I'm going to oversimplify this I think, but I find this amazing. I go start a fight, let's say, with intent to kill. I realize I'm getting my ass handed to my so I pull my gun and end it.

...

A couple of other interesting legal points.
Under the Florida law relating to the use of deadly force, there are a couple of outs even for someone who might be considered an "aggressor" like many feel that Mr. Zimmerman was. One is that the victim escalates the confrontation to the point where the "aggressor" has a reasonable fear of death or grievous bodily harm. The other is if the aggressor attempts to withdraw once the feces hits the rotary ventilating device. IF, in fact, it was Zimmerman calling for help while he was being beaten on the ground, that certainly gives rise to one, if not both of those defenses.
Another issue that hopefully will never come up in this matter is this. The law in Florida also permits a citizen to use deadly force if it is the only reasonable way to stop the commission of a forcible felony. Where this could be relevant is if we see a situation like in the Rodney King case where there are riots because ARSON is a forcible felony under Florida law. Remember also that the stand your ground law was passed specifically to address issues bought to light in the aftermath of the hurricanes of 2004 where there was apparently some looting of homes going on.

I agree. Hell, I have half a mind to report this myself!

Whether or not there is racism involved as a motive for the confrontation and subsequent shooting is indeed a valid point. Federal involvement hinges upon that very factor. The PD itself has a very checkered past with at least two or three major incidents of injustice in just the past few years. If it is shown by Federal investigation that race was not a factor, the case is best resolved by referal to State investigators and State prosecution if a grand jury indicts.

Again I ask though, when are they going to arrest the NBP leader who issued a $10,000 contract on the life of Zimmerman? This is a crime in every state as far as I know. And not a petty one.

[nozyk]

Now POTUS is involved and the last sentence is brilliant.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-ma...mo_code=E854-1

[bobusx]

Agreed that the "bounty" being offered by the "new black panther party" is disgusting, but I consider them to be a fringe terror organization, like the Aryan nation anyway. They should certainly be charged with a crime for puting up a bounty.

[Gollnick]

Now POTUS is involved and the last sentence is brilliant.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-ma...mo_code=E854-1

Again, this is the Current Events forum, not the Political forum. Discuss the events, not the politics related to them.

[Codger_64]

Now POTUS is involved and the last sentence is brilliant.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-ma...mo_code=E854-1

That is a very interesting report. It seems the PD has released Zimmerman's statements to them from their official report to a reporter. Is it common for details of a crime suspect's statements to police to be released to the public before an investigation is complete? I bet the state and feds are not amused. And yes, there are criminal investigations ongoing into the incident. They also mention unnamed witnesses who saw Martin pummeling Zimmerman. That witness, if true, had to have seen Zimmerman pull his gun and kill Martin, though the reporter does not mention that detail. Someone has some 'splainin to do.

[timcsaw]

That is a very interesting report. It seems the PD has released Zimmerman's statements to them from their official report to a reporter. Is it common for details of a crime suspect's statements to police to be released to the public before an investigation is complete? I bet the state and feds are not amused. And yes, there are criminal investigations ongoing into the incident. They also mention unnamed witnesses who saw Martin pummeling Zimmerman. That witness, if true, had to have seen Zimmerman pull his gun and kill Martin, though the reporter does not mention that detail. Someone has some 'splainin to do.

Per this MSNBC link, it was a leak from the police department, not a release;

In response to the recent article in the Orlando Sentinel, the information was not provided to the media through an authorized source at the Sanford Police Department, but possibly by a leak from within the department. The information in the article is consistent with the information provided to the State Attorney's office by the police department.

"We do not condone these unauthorized leaks of information," said City Manager, Norton Bonaparte, Jr. "Acting Chief Scott will be doing an internal investigation within the Sanford Police Department as this type of action compromises the integrity of the law enforcement agency which has pledged to uphold the law".

Mr. Bonaparte stated that disciplinary action including possible termination will be taken against anyone found to have leaked the information.