If obama had another son...

[quietmike]

Then why hide the passport and money from the court and lie to the Judge about it?

If you had people openly putting bounties on your life, and the authorities did nothing because of the politics of the case, wouldn't you be likely to keep your options open?

[Codger_64]

If you had people openly putting bounties on your life, and the authorities did nothing because of the politics of the case, wouldn't you be likely to keep your options open?

WOuld I play secret agent and use a very obvious "code" on monitored jail phones to tell my wife how to move funds around to keep them hidden from the court? Would I lie to the court about having nearly a quarter of a million dollars when asking for a low bond by pleading poverty? Would I try to deceive the court by stashing a duplicate passport and turning over one about to expire? All when my entire defense on a murder charge depended on the court believing my testimony? Nope.

Thanks for reminding me and others about the lack of prosecution of the perps in the kidnap/murder for hire case though, a very obvious race hate crime at that. But that is a different felony and felons.

Are we really reaching to excuse any felony that Zimmerman commits? Why? That makes me nerveous to think that so many people believe, like Zimmerman, that he is beyond the reach of the law. I don't think "Stand Your Ground" covers courtroom purgery or conceiling funds and passports from the court with the "option" of international flight in mind. Do you? Really?

[quietmike]

Thanks for reminding me and others about the lack of prosecution of the perps in the kidnap/murder for hire case though, a very obvious race hate crime at that. But that is a different felony and felons.

Are we really reaching to excuse any felony that Zimmerman commits? Why? That makes me nerveous to think that so many people believe, like Zimmerman, that he is beyond the reach of the law. I don't think "Stand Your Ground" covers courtroom purgery or conceiling funds and passports from the court with the "option" of international flight in mind. Do you? Really?

I think the law of survival trumps lots of other laws that normally, we would never consider breaking. Whether a thug is pummeling your head or trying to hire your murder, the survival instinct is stronger than
man-made laws.

[timcsaw]

I think the law of survival trumps lots of other laws that normally, we would never consider breaking. Whether a thug is pummeling your head or trying to hire your murder, the survival instinct is stronger than
man-made laws.

I can't think of any animal that exists that won't try to protect itself, however it can, when faced with a threat to it's life. Call it "instinct" or a "natural law" or a "right", but every living thing I can think of follows this rule (self protection of itself and or it's species) in some way or another.

[Codger_64]

I can't think of any animal that exists that won't try to protect itself, however it can, when faced with a threat to it's life. Call it "instinct" or a "natural law" or a "right", but every living thing I can think of follows this rule (self protection of itself and or it's species) in some way or another.

I would think this would include a 158# seventeen year old kid who was chased and attacked by a stranger with a gun, wouldn't you? I would think that there would be few, if any, limits on what the kid could do in the attempt to keep the adult from shooting him, even if armed only with his fists. Stand Your Ground or, as Quietmike put it, Law Of The Jungle applies to a kid facing an armed attacker. Not so much an accused felon under oath facing a judge in court.

[timcsaw]

I would think this would include a 158# seventeen year old kid who was chased and attacked by a stranger with a gun, wouldn't you? I would think that there would be few, if any, limits on what the kid could do in the attempt to keep the adult from shooting him, even if armed only with his fists. Stand Your Ground or, as Quietmike put it, Law Of The Jungle applies to a kid facing an armed attacker. Not so much an accused felon under oath facing a judge in court.

Absolutely! Any tall, 17 year old, athletic, football playing young man SHOULD use every tool and weapon at his disposal if someone is chasing him down with a gun pointed at him (hiding out of sight is a good tool)... but if the young man jumps from hiding onto the back of an apparently unarmed guy and has him down on the ground pounding him, he may find out too late that the man DID have a gun and the man just killed him with it.

Rule #1 - Only point a gun at what you intend to kill and always assume that every gun is loaded.
Rule #2 - Never jump on a guy from behind in the dark, and always assume that the guy you jump on IS armed and that he might follow rule #1

A whole lot of people might survive if they just followed rule number 2.

[Codger_64]

Absolutely! Any tall, 17 year old, athletic, football playing young man SHOULD use every tool and weapon at his disposal if someone is chasing him down with a gun pointed at him (hiding out of sight is a good tool)... but if the young man jumps from hiding onto the back of an apparently unarmed guy and has him down on the ground pounding him, he may find out too late that the man DID have a gun and the man just killed him with it.

Rule #1 - Only point a gun at what you intend to kill and always assume that every gun is loaded.
Rule #2 - Never jump on a guy from behind in the dark, and always assume that the guy you jump on IS armed and that he might follow rule #1

A whole lot of people might survive if they just followed rule number 2.

I'm not sure where this scenario was invented, but it does not conform to any of the known Zimmerman alibis. Most of which contain dialogue spoken between the two before anyone took a swing or fell to the ground. Martin was a 5' 11" tall highschool junior, not an NFL linebacker, and weighed 158#. Hardly meets your "Incredible Hulk" description (or previous "MMA fighter"), does he? But even outweighed and outgunned, he did have a right to defend himself from an armed assailant, did he not? If not, why not? Remember that you only have the word of the killer as to who instigated the confrontation. The killer who profiled the teen as a criminal then proceeded to chase him while armed. The killer who has already lied in court several times and his trial hasn't even started yet.

[timcsaw]

I'm not sure where this scenario was invented, but it does not conform to any of the known Zimmerman alibis. Most of which contain dialogue spoken between the two before anyone took a swing or fell to the ground. Martin was a 5' 11" tall highschool junior, not an NFL linebacker, and weighed 158#. Hardly meets your "Incredible Hulk" description (or previous "MMA fighter"), does he? But even outweighed and outgunned, he did have a right to defend himself from an armed assailant, did he not? If not, why not? Remember that you only have the word of the killer as to who instigated the confrontation. The killer who profiled the teen as a criminal then proceeded to chase him while armed. The killer who has already lied in court several times and his trial hasn't even started yet.

The problem is, TM may have "preemptively" defended himself FIRST by beating GZ's face into his fists from a "full mount position". I'll wait for the trial myself.

[Codger_64]

The problem is, it is nearly impossible to draw a pistol from a pancake inside your waistband when someone is in a "full mount position" on top of you. This suggests that the pistol was already out and brandished, giving Martin due reason to fear that his life was in imminant danger. There is evidently good reason why Zimmerman did not counterstrike Martin in the face or grab his throat. IMHO, his hand was full of pistol and Martin was attempting to restrain that gun-wielding arm, thus was only able to strike with one arm, the left which has the tiny 1/4" abrasion on the ring finger below the knuckle. Apparently his arm strength was no match for the heavier 28 year-old Zimmerman who overcame his restraint and shot him in the chest from 18" +/-.

So already we have no less than four lies from Zimmerman on police and court records, none of which yet pertain to his conflicting testimony (according to prosecution and detectives).

We will all have to wait for the trial. But that does not preclude me from discussing the case.

[BG42EDGE]

The problem is, it is nearly impossible to draw a pistol from a pancake inside your waistband when someone is in a "full mount position" on top of you.

Not true.

You just push his midsection away with your left hand as you twist to the right.

That's when he breaks your nose......because your left hand is too busy to guard your face.

Then you push the gun up against the sagging sweatshirt and pull the trigger.

The shot, according to the coroner was not "from 18" +/-" as you claim--it was from one inch to 18 inches."

Meaning anywhere in that range.

Yes, you can discuss the case, but you don't seem to be making much headway here.

[Codger_64]

Make headway? "Datniggytb" is the one who seems to be losing ground. Or rather credibility. Unless by "ground" you mean his swelling bank account.

Zimmerman claimed that the punch knocked him to the ground. The punch that was thrown when he went for his gun. Er... I mean when he went for his cell phone. And then Martin tried to get the cell phone... er... I mean gun away from him. Was that while Martin had his hands over his mouth and nose smothering him?

[timcsaw]

The problem is, it is nearly impossible to draw a pistol from a pancake inside your waistband when someone is in a "full mount position" on top of you. This suggests that the pistol was already out and brandished, giving Martin due reason to fear that his life was in imminant danger. There is evidently good reason why Zimmerman did not counterstrike Martin in the face or grab his throat. IMHO, his hand was full of pistol and Martin was attempting to restrain that gun-wielding arm, thus was only able to strike with one arm, the left which has the tiny 1/4" abrasion on the ring finger below the knuckle. Apparently his arm strength was no match for the heavier 28 year-old Zimmerman who overcame his restraint and shot him in the chest from 18" +/-.

So already we have no less than four lies from Zimmerman on police and court records, none of which yet pertain to his conflicting testimony (according to prosecution and detectives).

We will all have to wait for the trial. But that does not preclude me from discussing the case.

Not an impossible scenario.

Do we know if GZ and TM are left or right handed? Do we know which hand GZ held the gun in when it was fired? The reason I ask is because I've pictured GZ pulling it with his right hand, and if TM was on top, that would put TM's left hand closest, and most likely to me, fending of the gun in GZ's right hand... unless GZ is wrong-handed and draws with his left.

I will say that this latest development with the bail money may not help GZ's credibility at all... unless his lawyer is successful at his attempts to show it as a misunderstanding.

[Codger_64]

With the jail phone transcripts shown to the judge, where Zimmerman was asking his wife for account totals and directing her how to transfer money from the paypal account to her credit union account, that will be difficult.

[Codger_64]

Shellie Zimmerman was charged with perjury this week...

Shellie Zimmerman lied at her husband’s bond hearing about not having access to money, prosecutors said. Bank records show she had a safe deposit box with cash raised by a website her husband had set up, according to a prosecution affidavit.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/1...#storylink=cpy

Yepper, I'd believe anything this couple said.

From April 16 to 19, Shellie Zimmerman transferred $74,400 from George Zimmerman’s account to her own in small chunks: She transferred just under $10,000 six times and $7,500 twice.

On the 16th, she twice withdrew $9,000 cash from her own account and later discussed with her husband taking what she “put in the box.”

George Zimmerman felt safer if his wife used gift cards instead of cash and asked her to pay off their American Express and Sam’s Club cards, according to prosecutors.

On April 16 and 17, another $47,000 was transferred from Zimmerman’s account to his sister’s bank account.

She is out on bond. But... that charge may not be the only one she faces.

A state attorney investigator met with credit union officials and learned she had control of transfers to and from her husband's account.

Jeffrey Neiman, a former federal prosecutor now in private practice, said cash transactions in excess of $10,000 usually trigger a reporting requirement by the bank to multiple government agencies — including the IRS.

"If Mrs. Zimmerman intentionally structured the financial transactions in a manner to keep the offense under $10,000, not only may she have committed perjury in the state case, but she also may have run afoul of several federal statutes and could face serious federal criminal charges," Neiman wrote in an email to The Associated Press.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...hide-finances/

[timcsaw]

Shellie Zimmerman was charged with perjury this week...

Yepper, I'd believe anything this couple said.

She is out on bond. But... that charge may not be the only one she faces.

Jeffrey Neiman, a former federal prosecutor now in private practice, said cash transactions in excess of $10,000 usually trigger a reporting requirement by the bank to multiple government agencies — including the IRS.

"If Mrs. Zimmerman intentionally structured the financial transactions in a manner to keep the offense under $10,000, not only may she have committed perjury in the state case, but she also may have run afoul of several federal statutes and could face serious federal criminal charges,"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...hide-finances/

Most troubling to me is learning that someone can be charged with some sort of crime if one transfers nine thousand dollars of his own money on 3 different (or more) days.

[Codger_64]

Most troubling to me is learning that someone can be charged with some sort of crime if one transfers nine thousand dollars of his own money on 3 different (or more) days.

It is a part of the ongoing effort to crack down on money laundering (drugs, arms, gambling, etc.) and has been in effect for quite some years. They got caught structuring money transfers into deposits in multiple accounts and a safety deposit box full of cash to avoid detection of the funds and the movement of those funds. One would think that a recent Criminal Justice graduate would have known better. Perhaps he missed the lectures on money laundering and perjury. It is looking more doubtful that his bond will be approved at his next bond hearing on the 29th.

Prosecutors say Shellie Zimmerman made eight transfers from her husband's credit union account to her account between April 16 and 19 totaling more than $74,000. Six of the transfers were just under the $10,000 threshold that would have required the credit union report the transactions to the Internal Revenue Service.

If she, under his direction via the jail phone, wasn't making transfers in an effort to hide assets from the court, I'll eat my hoodie.

[timcsaw]

It is a part of the ongoing effort to crack down on money laundering (drugs, arms, gambling, etc.) and has been in effect for quite some years. They got caught structuring money transfers into deposits in multiple accounts and a safety deposit box full of cash to avoid detection of the funds and the movement of those funds. One would think that a recent Criminal Justice graduate would have known better. Perhaps he missed the lectures on money laundering and perjury. It is looking more doubtful that his bond will be approved at his next bond hearing on the 29th.



If she, under his direction via the jail phone, wasn't making transfers in an effort to hide assets from the court, I'll eat my hoodie.

I'm not please to find that I can't transfer my own money in any amount I want, as many TIMES as I want, without "Big Brother" saying I broke some ridiculous law.

As for GZ's wife, it isn't looking good if this sort of "law" exists. If it can be proved that she was trying to "hide" the money, git' her, but I don't like the premise of the law if it is as I understand it.

[kronckew]

there was a gentleman who flew on his annual buying trip to texas to pick up new plant stock for his garden center, he was in the habit of carrying cash to pay for his purchases at small suppliers rather than by cheque or credit card as that was the tradition in his business...

he was stopped and searched by a policeman who saw him, a hispanic looking man, with a wad of cash, and was arrested for money laundering on a federal warrant as he'd transported in excess of 3000$ in cash across state lines. he eventually proved he was not the drug lord that he was made out to be, and was acquitted after a long and costly legal battle. they still kept his confiscated money tho. i gather there is no mechanism for returning the money as you are presumed guilty even if proven innocent. i believe this was a federal 'law' by presidential decree by one of our past democratic presidents.

[skyhorse]

IMHO,if Obama had another Son he'd look just like Jessie Jackson.

[Codger_64]

Well, so much has happened in the Zimmerman case, it is confusing to say the least. Zimmerman decided that the Judge didn't like him, based upon the pages of text the Judge wrote explaining his reasoning for increasing the bond amount, so he (O'mara reprsenting) filed a motion asking the Judge to recuse himself from the case. The judge just refused the motion.

Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara, in a motion filed July 13 asking the judge to step down, accused Judge Kenneth Lester of bias, citing what he called "gratuitous" and "disparaging remarks" Lester made in a July 5 ruling raising Zimmerman's bond from $150,000 to $1 million.

Unlike the bond reinstatement document which detailed the Judge's reasons for increasing the bond (which was the basis of O'mara's motion), the Judge's rejection of the motion to recuse himself was succinct and to the point as required by State law.

In his order dismissing the motion for him to recuse himself, Lester wrote that, by law, he must assume O'Mara's allegations were true.

"The court is not permitted to deny the allegations supporting the motion as untrue, reject them as unfounded, or comment upon them at all," Lester wrote in his order.

He went on to rule that despite the factual basis of the allegations they were not sufficient to require that he recuse himself. "The court finds the motion to be legally insufficient," Lester wrote.

So this makes twice that the defense has decided to get the judge hearing the case booted, the first time successful and this time not. Now they have a pissed off judge to deal with, like it or not.

In other news, Zimmerman complained to his lawyer that the lawyer controlled donation website was not nearly as financially rewarding as the one he had set up for himself, so that site was reinstated. However, since his rerelease on bond, donations have dropped off substantially. Donors evidently are somewhat put off by revelations of where their hard earned dollars went, and by the way the Zimmermans colluded to hide the money from the court prior to their first bond hearing.

A listing of expendatures was given by the prosecution's investigators which included paying off credit cards, Sam's Club, other bills, purchase of new expensive cell phones and prepaid contracts, etc.

George Zimmerman went through almost $36,000 of contributions in 18 days spent mostly in jail, spending a bulk of his newfound cash on telecommunications, newly filed court records show.

Using funds donated from the public on the short-lived www.therealgeorgezimmerman.com, Zimmerman and his wife spent $6,500 on Internet and phone bills, according to a document his defense attorney filed with the judge. He and his wife bought new cell phones for $300 each and paid a year-long Verizon contract in full. They installed a telephone landline for $2,500 and spent $1,300 on a two-year AT&T wi-fi contract.

They paid off at least $7,000 in credit card bills.

They used $4,378 on automotive expenses, making payments on two car loans while renting another for more than $1,500. Gas: $800.

In a May letter to Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester, O’Mara called the spending “judicious.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/1...#storylink=cpy

It seems they have pretty well burned through the first approximately quarter million dollars already. This leads us to the cancelled Barba Walters interview where he tried, at the last minute, to extract a payment for that interview in the form of a month's stay in a hotel and expenses. Ms. Walters walked away and flew back home. Zimmerman had second thoughts the next day so he called Baba Wawa while she was on the air with her program. She refused the call and made a statement on the air to wit... "Try again some other time".

Now, O'mara is pleading for more donations on his website saying the fund is essentially drained. And George and Shelly aren't the only ones begging for money. George's parents have put up their own website soliciting money to support them.

George's best friend and early spokesman Frank Taaffe made the news. He was arrested for DUI. Of course it wasn't his fault. He didn't know that taking his prescription anxiety medication with alcohol would make him drunk. Or something to that effect.

Taaffe added that he “didn’t read the label” on his medication.

Now Shelly, out on bond on her charge of Perjury, has filed a not guilty plea in absentia, her lawyer entering a waiver of appearance at the hearing. I don't have a clue how she hopes to beat the charge with all those phone calls entered into evidence, along with her sworn testimony during the first bond hearing.

Perhaps by now donors and other supporters of Zimmerman are beginning to look at them with a jaundiced eye. IMHO, many if not most of them are actually supporters of the "ideal" of the "SYG law", not really of Zimmerman himself, and have quietly begun distancing themselves from the man who has proven himself to be, at best, less than honest. A sad thing when his entire defense depends upon people believing his version of events.

ETA: I forgot to mention, in case anyone missed it and was interested, the day before he tried to get money from Baba Wawa and ran her off, he gave an extended interview on air with uncharictoristicly softball host, Sean Hannity. I believe that intrview is available on line if you wish to see it. It is about 45 minutes long. During the interview, he stated that he would not change a thing he did that day. That would be second-guessing God since the shooting of Martin was God's will. IIRC, the prosecution entered the transcript and video as further evidence since more of his description of events did not jive with what he had previously told investigators.

Also, among the witness interviews released in the days prior to that, was one by a younger female cousin of his. While it had no direct bearing on the case itself, it was rather disconcerting in content. The cousin came forward to testify that George had molested her from age 6 - 16. I believe he is a few years her senior.