Looking for a small fixed blade to be a companion to my CCW

[Clay1]

I've been a member for a little while and I love folders, but have never carried a fixed blade my whole life. The types of blades that I own and have carried include many Benchmade models, Spyderco, Emerson and Microtech manuals. My current EDC is a Benchmade 710, but sometime swap that for an 806D2. Our state has recently passed CCW legislation which includes knife carry, but makes it illegal to carry Balisong or autos.

I teach concealed carry classes in my area and this has made me re evaluate my own carry options. While the Benchmade folders deploy quickly, I am considering a small inexpensive fixed blade knife so as to not fumble to opening process under pressure and being even quicker to deploy. The small TDI fixed blade kind of interests me. What else should I be considering? I'm not looking for a pretty knife, I'm not into embellishments, I just want steel that will hold an edge and it will take the EDC bumps and grinds of life and be dependable. Thanks for all of your thoughts.

[dalefuller]

If you're considering using it for SD where deployment and a secure grip are important, then you should also add the ergos and grip security to your list of requirements. I use small FBs for EDC carry a lot, but I don't do any SD training or work with them and I've never been trained to consider it. Point is, a lot of small FBs will work for me where it doesn't matter how quickly I can draw it and even not so much how secure my grip is in stressful situations. I have several small FBs with smooth micarta or stag handles that cut well but would be very questionable in SD because they're smooth and slick and the sheaths don't allow for the kind of carry that gives quick access.

The ones I know about that might work for you are the ESSEE Izula, the Dozier Personal from A G Russell, Becker's BK14 ( the BK11 handle was too short for my hand), or something from a custom maker here on BF. There are many others out there, but those are the ones I've had some experience with.

[Mike-The-Knife]

If it's strictly for self defence then you'd probably want a double edged knife like a small dagger .


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HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS !

[mctrinket]

Ka-Bar TDI is a good one for a CCW accompaniment.

[maximus83]

Be careful with double-edged knives depending on your state, many states (including mine--WA) prohibit them.

I'd suggest the one I've been using: the Spyderco Fred Perrin Street Beat. It's a little spendy, but extremely light, ergonomic, and has a great thick VG10 steel blade for such a lightweight (it's about 0.156" thick stock). If you find that the Street Beat is too spendy (it'll cost you around $150 to $160 street prices), the next best I'd suggest would be something like the Benchmade Nim Cub II. Same size blade, a bit thinner but perfectly adequate and uses a good 154cm SS.

[Yo Mama]

Another vote for Kabar TDI, or a neck knife like a Becker Necker.

[sutured]

Al Mar backup or Cold Steel Spike are both great knives.

I played with a TDI on my duty gear and found it to be completely, unequivocally useless.

We all get to make our decisions and live with the consequences, but personally I think that carrying a knife for protection in addition to a handgun as a civilian is ridiculous. A knife and a pistol are both lethal force, one is just several hundred times more effective than the other at defending your life. It's not like a CCW holder is going to be fighting someone for control of their gun the way a LEO might. If you're carrying properly nobody even knows you have a gun until it's in your hand. Your overall risk of confrontation is quite low to begin with, and a defensive knife is more likely to slow your reaction time than it is to come to your rescue. It's also a litigation nightmare. For the same money/weight/hassle factor a person could be carrying OC spray which may prevent a lethal use of force to begin with.

Then again, unless you are being targeted by a specific person or group, CCW's are more about emotional security than actual threat reduction, so do whatever makes you feel better.

[maximus83]

personally I think that carrying a knife for protection in addition to a handgun as a civilian is ridiculous.

Agreed that a knife is not LIKELY to be useful, and also that it is FAR less effective than a handgun. But what about the concept of a "backup" or "last ditch" weapon? I assume based on my experiences that most who carry (either off-duty LEO's, or as private citizens) do not go through the hassle, expense, and training of carrying a backup pistol. Therefore, it would seem prudent if you are going to carry at all, to at least have SOMETHING other than bare knuckles in the event your handgun runs out of ammo or has a stoppage that takes it out of the fight. Is a knife likely to save your life? Probably not, but, doesn't a small blade at least give you something to use a last ditch backup weapon?

[gazz98]

Are double sided blades allowed? What about blade length restrictions?

You could do a ESEE Izula or a Buck Mayo Kaala if you want a slimmer profile.

[Need2Know]

Spartan Knives Enyo is worth a look.

[sutured]

Agreed that a knife is not LIKELY to be useful, and also that it is FAR less effective than a handgun. But what about the concept of a "backup" or "last ditch" weapon? I assume based on my experiences that most who carry (either off-duty LEO's, or as private citizens) do not go through the hassle, expense, and training of carrying a backup pistol. Therefore, it would seem prudent if you are going to carry at all, to at least have SOMETHING other than bare knuckles in the event your handgun runs out of ammo or has a stoppage that takes it out of the fight. Is a knife likely to save your life? Probably not, but, doesn't a small blade at least give you something to use a last ditch backup weapon?

I agree in theory that something is better than nothing, but when you play out real life scenarios the back-up knife just isn't a sound or prudent idea.

The theory that a knife is a suitable compliment to a handgun for personal defense would make most CQB instructors snicker, if they were trying to be polite. If you're really worried that your primary weapon is going to fail, either get a better primary weapon and/or cary more reloads and/or a second handgun. But don't take a knife to a gunfight. It won't work and you'll only give your assailant a chance of making you out to be the aggressor.

Again, to each their own. I love knives, I just don't think this particular application makes good sense.

[maximus83]

I hear you and would agree up to this point: that a FOLDING knife carried with the idea of being an effective defense backup tool, is probably not a great idea. Too many issues can occur with deploying and locking the blade, plus it just takes too long, forces you to change your grip between locking it and then preparing for combat. I've seen serious instructors make this argument about folders on another site that has a lot of industry professionals on it (M4Carbine.net). However, this is the very point in this thread: the OP has some experience and is looking for a FIXED carry blade for the very purpose of last-ditch backup tool.

The concept of a fixed blade that is primarily used for EDC cutting tasks, and secondarily as a last ditch backup to a pistol, seems like a reasonable idea to me as long as one is not under any illusions that the knife is going to bail you out or keep you from getting hurt. You are right that one's primary efforts should be in getting a quality handgun and training with it. That will increase your odds of surviving a fight better than anything, not to mention the general need for "situational awareness" that should keep you out of dangerous situations to begin with. The FB knife probably won't save you, but it will probably give you a somewhat better chance of survival than using nothing. You can of course increase your odds by getting some defensive knife training through combatives guys like Mercop (a member of this forum).

[kimberfan]

I agree in theory that something is better than nothing, but when you play out real life scenarios the back-up knife just isn't a sound or prudent idea.

The theory that a knife is a suitable compliment to a handgun for personal defense would make most CQB instructors snicker, if they were trying to be polite. If you're really worried that your primary weapon is going to fail, either get a better primary weapon and/or cary more reloads and/or a second handgun. But don't take a knife to a gunfight. It won't work and you'll only give your assailant a chance of making you out to be the aggressor.

Again, to each their own. I love knives, I just don't think this particular application makes good sense.

the point in carrying a knife with your gun is more for "weapon retention" I.E. some ones on top of you going for your gun you can draw the knife from your weak side "disable" the threat and then draw your pistol, imo thats what a knife would be used for

[mercop]

The knife is not prudent for knife fighting but very prudent for cutting someone off of you as a deadly force option when you cannot carry a firearm. A knife is NOT a replacement for a firearm because as a contact distance weapon it requires you to be in within reach of your attacker, a firearm allows stand off distance.

If you have to use a knife, any knife to fight for your life it is going to be the shittiest moment of your entire life, nothing is going right at all. If when putting a knife in your pocket or on your belt, you have even the faintest thought of using it to protect yourself, you need to get some training based on reality using the type and size of knife you can carry all the time.

I sometimes leave the house without a pistol, but never without a knife, these days a large Sebenza. It is carried because it is super light and the majority of the time I am wearing light shorts. It's primary use is opening things, not people. But I would not hesitate to use it if I needed too. My first response would be open handed or with an impact weapon (pen) allowing me to gain the time and distance I know that I need to open a folding knife.- George

[snow and steel]

I submit for your viewing sir;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...Leu-Leu-custom

[mercop]

I submit for your viewing sir;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...Leu-Leu-custom

Knife looks pretty good, but the kydex looks built for carry and not deployment. Half the grip is covered up.- George

[Rapt_up]

You might want to look at HAK (hide away knives)... I think they're a pretty neat CCW option.

[tueller]

I couldn't agree with Mercop more and fully disagree with sutured's opinion. An edged self defense tool (lol) is crucial if carrying a firearm. For two reasons: 1. In a close range self defense situation (clinch/wrestle) indroducing a firearm is as bad an idea as attempting to use a bow an arrow. A firearm is a projectile weapon and for distance. In close quarters the likely hood of having it wrestled out of your hands or creating a malfunction is too great to bet your life on. However, a knife on the other hand is the opposite, its for "in" fighting and the wrong tool for distance fighting. 2. Weapon retention. Someone goes for your firearm... S.P.E.C. Secure the firearm in the holster with your strong hand. Position away from attacker. Enforce your attackers release of the weapon (knife?). Control the situation. Therefor its not what knife you should carry... its how you should carry it. It needs to be readily available to your support hand and blade out. Therefor you can protect your primary weapon with the use of your secondary weapon and support hand. Anyways... just the way i was trained. I am sure there are other styles. Personally I used a Kabar TDI for years and loved it. Recently I wanted a more versatile fixed blade so I carry a standard fixed blade but its still located for its primary objective... weapon retention. FYI: None of this has anything to do with use of force and when you are justified to use any weapon. I was assuming that you are in a use of deadly force scenerio. Train hard. Be safe.

[Charlie Mike]

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[collecter]

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