This little gem deserves reposting

[Charlie Mike]

[TotinCh1p]

Right click, save. Thanks.

[ron_m80]

Incomplete chart.

[Charlie Mike]

Do you think the CO's would trip if I printed and mailed this to my younger brother who is doing 4 years at the San Louis Obispo mens colony?

[tyr_shadowblade]

The timetable has been proven inaccurate and variable.

[SamuraiDave]

Uhh, how did they find this out? An estimate?
Man, sometimes I forget that quite a few previous generations were some cold bastards.
BTW, information that the Navy, Air Force and Commercial Air Lines use for how long a person can survive in cold water was provided by German Scientists that did their testing on live specimens from concentration camps. Really gross, really heartless, but those Germans kept impeccable documentation.

[culpritish]

The timetable has been proven inaccurate and variable.

Absolutely, but it is interesting stuff, if a bit outdated.
But thanks for posting, C.M.!

[djjonny]

There's also the femoral on the inner thigh

[Siromanta]

This timetable is crap, unfortunately. I saw videos on which guy got stabbed in heart, and managed to get away, he died later of course. On lots of "beheading" videos, I saw cartoid artery severed, and they were certainly concious for more than 5 seconds. If I remember well, even when brain is completely deprived of oxygen, it still can maintain conciousness for about 10 seconds. So how would heart stab instantly KO someone?

[WindyCityKali]

Didn't Michael Janich do a book that showed whats-his-name that wrote the chart was off by quite a bit?

I have MJ's book upstairs. Maybe it's time to dust that off again.

[untamed]

A related thread from some years back. A good re-read -

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...iousness+death

[CWL]

This timetable is crap, unfortunately. I saw videos on which guy got stabbed in heart, and managed to get away, he died later of course. On lots of "beheading" videos, I saw cartoid artery severed, and they were certainly concious for more than 5 seconds. If I remember well, even when brain is completely deprived of oxygen, it still can maintain conciousness for about 10 seconds. So how would heart stab instantly KO someone?

The goal isn't "death", it is incapacitation of your attacker. Whether or not the end result is death is immaterial, you just want to stop the attack.

It doesn't matter how quickly someone might die, whether seconds or minutes, but if your defensive action has caused a grievous wound, your attacker may stop and "beat feet" rather than continue an assault.

Say you made a cut into a BG's throat, almost 100% reflexive reaction of BG (anyone) would be to immediately raise his/her hand to feel the wound, that's one less used to attack you with... you can use this to create distance, run away, or make follow-up moves.

You didn't think that you are just supposed to stand there and watch, did you?

[Siromanta]

Of course not, I was just saying that information in this timetable is not true, thats all. I just dont believe in 1 hit instant reliable incapacitation with knife, unless someone severs the spine or brain.

[Chris Doner]

Many years ago Michael Janich was asked to assist in a court case, possibly as an expert witness (I'm don't recall all the details) to help explain the circumstances surrounding a particularly brutal assault with a knife that ended in one man's death and another man's trial. After extensive examination of the crime scene photos Mike was able to establish what had occurred and supply an answer to the court.

The thing that stood out to Mike was that the man who was killed suffered hundreds of stab wounds and cuts but continued his assault and that it took many, many minutes for him to perish from his wounds. This was a revelation to Mike and was the initial basis for his emphasis on biomechanical cutting and true stopping power that is achieved when you target the muscle groups that allow one to extend and retract a weapon arm or support body weight. His MBC system is based upon the idea that targeting these areas will allow one to stop an opponent from continuing their attack vs some other method that may cause them to bleed to death...in several minutes. The emphasis on stopping power is important. Would you want to spend three to four minutes tangled up with someone armed with a knife or other deadly weapon while you wait for them to succumb to their wounds? That's a lot of time for your attacker to potentially do harm to you.

Fairbairn's time table of death was simply meant to inspire confidence in soldiers who would be deploying with minimal training. Applegate told this to Janich. When Mike's friend, Christopher Grosz approached him about an idea he had for a book he and Mike went to work on it. Chris had already done extensive research into exanguination rates and all the variables that apply and had approached many in the medival field to help substantiate his research.

Here's the book description:

CONTEMPORARY KNIFE TARGETING

Modern Science vs. W.E. Fairbairn

Author: Christopher Grosz and Michael D. Janich

William E. Fairbairn’s Timetable of Death—a section in his book ,All-In Fighting that identifies the major arteries of the human body and lists the amount of time it would take to bleed to unconsciousness or death when these blood vessels are severed—has been used for years as a standard reference by students of edged-weapon tactics. But when Colorado police officer Christopher Grosz took a critical look at the timetable to validate it as a reference for law-enforcement training, he made a surprising discovery: the information in it was seriously flawed.

Grosz began a thorough analysis of Fairbairn’s work, human anatomy, and the realities of effective knife targeting and later teamed up with knife expert Michael Janich to document it all in Contemporary Knife Targeting. The research in this book was conducted with the help of recognized experts in both the medical and tactical fields. It takes full advantage of state-of-the-art medical studies directly related to the effects of edged weapons on the human body. It also reveals the real purpose behind Fairbairn’s original timetable and expands its scope to include the full spectrum of targets on the human body that are vulnerable to knife attacks. The result is a modern, medically accurate version of Fairbairn’s original timetable. It also includes contemporary self-defense applications of the updated data, making it the new definitive resource for all students of edged-weapon tactics. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2, softcover, photos, 152 pp.

Christopher Grosz was a defense tactics master instructor, a martial artist, a decorated officer of the Littleton, Colorado police department, and a student and training partner of Michael Janich. He passed away on Oct. 13, 2005, shortly after the public version of this book was contracted. Michael Janich completed the book as a tribute to Chris and signed all royalties over to his wife and children