Sad sad day for my bk7

[Wooly Bugger]

hey wooly, i tried this yesterday and coundnt attach pics by sending email thru the forum, as it requires a url which i cant get to as i am at work.

Just email me and I'll reply back. You can attach them then. My email has my name in it, so I'm not going to post it in the thread.

[MikeyJ]

People have their own opinions about knives and their own expectations of what those knives should be capable of doing. I don't come on here to try and change that for anyone. If I found myself in a "real survival" situation, I am certain it would be my innate will to live that will carry me through the ordeal, not my knife. I would do what I could with what I had, be it a 7" made in the USA combat/utility knife, or a cheap-ass, made in Taiwan, gas station multi-tool (think Aron Ralston). I don't think we put enough faith into what WE can do.

[brward]

Just sent them to wooly. I looked thru the pics i took last night and most were horrible and didnt show the true scale of the hole i dug, which i swear wasnt that big at all. Ill break out the measuring tape tonight and get exact and maybe even more pics.

[Wooly Bugger]

Here you go bud.....

IMG_1183.jpg IMG_1184.jpg

[brward]

I have heard numerous references to Aron Ralston, but dont know what it is all about, is that something i could search for in here or is there anyone willing to fill me in?

[vittorioe89]

If you need to pry up roots in a survival situation, find a nice big branch with more leverage and spare your knife. I also agree with sqoon, just because you have "tested" a knife by prying with it does not mean it will stand up to the same abuse again. If doing so gives you confidence to abuse your most important tool in a survival situation, so be it. You just have to acknowledge thats not the intended use of the tool and you are taking a big risk in a situation where your risk aversion should be off the charts.

[MikeyJ]

I have heard numerous references to Aron Ralston, but dont know what it is all about, is that something i could search for in here or is there anyone willing to fill me in?

Aron Ralston had his arm pinned beneath a boulder in Utah. He used a cheapo multi-tool to sever his arm. The movie 127 hours was about his story...and actually a good movie!

And for what it's worth brward, after seeing the pictures, I think you had a defective knife...it happens (albeit very rarely). Have I told you yet that the BK7 is and always has been my favorite of the Becker line? Please don't be soured because of this experience!

[brward]

I realize when i said prying that you guys were thinking that i was getting medieval on it, but this simply wasnt the case. I did not subject it to alot, as this was my baby and i would have never did anything to it that i though would have broke it. I can think of several situations out in the field where what i did would have been necessary, and only hope that it was a fluke and will be taken care of. I have known and trust the kabar name and wanted this knife and others for my collection to last longer than i will. Based on the loyalty to the becker name by all of you, i still think i made the right decision in this purchase and will still probably buy more of them, but will be cautious and a little more hesitant to do things like this in the future.

[vittorioe89]

People have their own opinions about knives and their own expectations of what those knives should be capable of doing. I don't come on here to try and change that for anyone. If I found myself in a "real survival" situation, I am certain it would be my innate will to live that will carry me through the ordeal, not my knife. I would do what I could with what I had, be it a 7" made in the USA combat/utility knife, or a cheap-ass, made in Taiwan, gas station multi-tool (think Aron Ralston). I don't think we put enough faith into what WE can do.

I have no faith that I could do what he did. I'd like to say I could but that's one that no one really knows until they're in the moment. I would prefer a nice sharp BK7 if I had to though

I realize when i said prying that you guys were thinking that i was getting medieval on it, but this simply wasnt the case. I did not subject it to alot, as this was my baby and i would have never did anything to it that i though would have broke it. I can think of several situations out in the field where what i did would have been necessary, and only hope that it was a fluke and will be taken care of. I have known and trust the kabar name and wanted this knife and others for my collection to last longer than i will. Based on the loyalty to the becker name by all of you, i still think i made the right decision in this purchase and will still probably buy more of them, but will be cautious and a little more hesitant to do things like this in the future.

Yeah definitely don't let it turn you off of the Beckers. They are top notch for sure. End of the day, if you feel you weren't prying that hard on it, then there was probably something defective.

[thrillbilly]

If You have ever etched a Becker, u will know where the heat treat differential is located. It makes a very visible line...I can get some pics up later

[The Warrior]

I realize when i said prying that you guys were thinking that i was getting medieval on it, but this simply wasnt the case. I did not subject it to alot, as this was my baby and i would have never did anything to it that i though would have broke it.

I was wondering about this myself. Although the roots shown aren't that big, I know how tough they can be. Have dug up several in my day. I had a front end loader here a few weeks ago, pulling old metal fence posts. One of them would hardly budge, and it was just a few small roots that was stopping it. I was thinking perhaps you cut some of the roots, but not all, and then was trying to pry it up the rest of the way. But, by what you said, you didn't.

[Shotgun]

I am sure they will wind up replacing it because Kabar is that just kind of company, However, the warranty that they were nice enough to include in the box does clearly state that using it as a prybar, chisel, screwdriver or digging tool is not covered. Nor should it be, It is not a prybar a chisel a screwdriver or a shovel.
If you buy something and it tells you in no uncertain terms that you should not dig holes or use it to pry with but you do anyway and it breaks I don't see how it can be their fault or why they should be expected to replace it, even if they will.

Just because you find yourself in a survival situation doesn't mean your knife is now suddenly capable of performing any task you can daydream up. It's a tool, they get used up eventually. When they do you buy another, You don't blame it on the manufacturer. I do not form emotional attachments to tools, If I break something I just go buy another.

I agree. If it were me I wouldn't even ask for a replacement.

In proper testing one must push a tool beyond what the user would expect it to do when needed.

Only then can the user be assured it's up to the task.


And I don't mean someone testing some tool that might be like yours,

...I mean you testing the actual tool you plan to rely on.




If you need a tool to pry open a car,

..you need to start testing tools with that purpose in mind.



The things I do when testing are way beyond what I really use knives for.

Buying tools from companies that stand behind them gives me the confidence to test tools that way.



Just one knife users opinion.






Big Mike

Don't you worry about fatiguing the metal in your testing? To me banging on a knife at home is a good way of breaking it when you need it most. Unless of course you've bought two. One for testing and one to rely on.

[Big Mike]

That's a pretty small hunk if roots.



Where the roots growing along the edge of that concrete slab seen in the photos?






Big Mike

[brward]

no, they werent big mike. they were growing under my pool deck.

[Big Mike]

Don't you worry about fatiguing the metal in your testing?

No, as an engineer and consultant working with corrosion/failures in metal structures, I understand metal fatigue well.


The types of loading, and cycles there of, that I might apply in testing do not worry me at all.

Rarely will any knife be abused enough to fail from fatigue.


Unseen inclusions in the steel and unseen stress risers are the root cause of most blade failures I have seen though the years.

One for testing and one to rely on.

The problem there is the one you didn't test will be the one that will break.







Big Mike

[oXide]

I don't think what you did would constitute abuse in my book, but I would have chopped around it as much as I could before I started prying at it, mostly because I've pried with my BK2 before, at roots, which weren't quite as big as that and while I did remove the roots, I also allowed Helga (my BK2) to kiss my forehead, so I learned my lesson without breaking my knife. And if you were prying and it broke because of abuse, it should have been much further down the blade than that... I think it was probably a ugly duckling that slipped through disguised as a Biscuit, but that being said, Ka-Bar does have their warranty that says prying is not covered, so in the end it is totally up to them whether or not they replace it, which from what I've seen of their customer service is more than likely going to be the case.

[speesky]

If the whole blade is headtreated the same would it benefit from a blowtorch on the spine to draw the brittleness out of the spine side of the knife like how custom makers do?

[oXide]

If the whole blade is headtreated the same would it benefit from a blowtorch on the spine to draw the brittleness out of the spine side of the knife like how custom makers do?

I think your correct, but there is an easier way to keep the spine softer, and therefore "tougher", if you limit the amount of heat that makes contact with the spine, I think I saw somewhere on the web that a few people put something like clay along the spine and tang of the knife to keep it from heating up as much, keeping it softer and tougher.

But with 1095CV, since the chromium is added, that might make it more of a hassle than a solution, and the vanadium added is to bring hardness back so that the edge retention is still there, this combination as I understand it makes 1095CV a "super steel" of sorts (not like S30V or some such true super steel, but an upgraded version of a more common tool type steel), because it can be hardened just like normal 1095, yet it's tougher and less brittle.

However, like Moose stated before I think the ramp/jimping could be a stressor (real word, just used in a different context), to what extent I have no idea, but if it's within the temper differential, that could raise the stress put on that point, and I don't know, but the roll stamp, while compressing the steel, making it stronger (one would think anyhow), could also cause an addition stress factor to appear.

[hunter55]

It's strange how some times you can bash the shit out of a knife without getting as much as a scratch, but other times a knife can break from nothing :/

So far the only knives I've broken are knives I have used for throwing. But that's to be expected. All knives break if you throw them too much (and I don't care what the Busse fans say). Also the omega spring broke on one of my benchmades.

You shouldn't give up on beckers though. They are damn tough knives

I don’t think that a British MOD knife will suffer so much. I used mine in digging and prying affairs successfully with no problem at all. Of course the blade of MOD is thicker than the blade of bk-7.
I don’t think, also, that the Busse family products will suffer such as the bk7. A SYKO 711 will not suffer so much. I have one (as well as a bk7). The chopping power of 711 is better of bk7 while the confidence of the user / owner is greater (durability in any task/work). Of course the blade of 711 is thicker than the blade of bk-7.
As far as the SYKCO products are concerned I would like to remind the thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...rformance-Pics (dated 5/2/2007) where the dogfather suffered a lot (test – in laboratory of course – similar to the “roots affair of bk-7).
Finally I agree with the comments of vittorioe89 replying to Haze240: I completely agree that a hard use knife should be able to take some serious use and not break when you don't expect.:

04-30-2012, 07:08 PM #42
vittorioe89
Originally Posted by sqoon I wonder, if the knife was replaced, and you had the exact same chore in front of you, would you try it again with the Becker?

I had to take some roots out just a few weeks ago. I used a pickaxe, shovel and saw.
this.^

I can't think of survival situation that necessitates heavy prying, digging, or boomeranging with my knife. That said, idk why you would expect the 7 to be the knife for the job if that is the intended purpose.
Originally Posted by Haze240
I love how people can preach about how tough Beckers are, how they can pry, dig, chop, bash, hammer etc... But as soon as one legit breaks people say "Cutting roots? That's abuse!!". If I was usingy Hard Use knife that works for a living and it failed without me TRYING to make it fail, I would want a replacement. If they said "Sorry, not covered by warranty, you were abusing it."
I completely agree that a hard use knife should be able to take some serious use and not break when you don't expect. This comes down to reasonable expectations of the knife though. The OP hasn't been really upfront about the exact circumstance of the break, but i'd be willing to bet it was along the lines of prying a root up and not just cutting. I could be wrong but I don't really see that as a reasonable expectation of a knife.
Last edited by vittorioe89; 04-30-2012 at 07:26 PM.

[Moosez45]

MOD knife has a rockwell of about 52, it would bend far before it broke.

Moose