CPM-M4 G10-Ti Framelock Military?

[hank_rearden]

^
thanks for that one. e-bay price plus shipping (the latter is considerable for where i live) puts mine at 220.

[USAFSP]

You're kind of jumping into an argument that's been going back and forth both here and on the Spyderco forums... :/
Check out some of the new orange XHP Para2's - the price from CS was something around $135 or $140; now anything below $200 seems to be considered a good price for someone to get one. The argument by the added-value resellers tends to be "We paid attention and got in on the preorder, this is how free markets work, people are willing to buy them at these prices, and at least we're giving other fans a chance to get one." The counters go from "that's a pretty low-down thing to do to other forum members and enthusiasts" to "If you hadn't bought two with plans to flip both maybe I could have gotten in on the preorder and wouldn't need to buy from you." It's a bit of a mess.

Basically, getting in on the preorders is the only way to ensure the retail price. And the orange para2 preorder closed out in 12 days, the green one in 6 or 7.

OK so kind of the same mess with Hinderer knives then. I’ll just wait to get in on the next pre-order to get a cool blade. I’m not going to give anyone the satisfaction of ripping me off for the sake of “Free Market” value. We’re not trading natural resources here. They are knives lol... I don’t need this knife that bad.

[snowreaper1]

Well if it gives you any hope I sold mine at $275 around a couple months ago. But that was only because I found a knife I needed to have and no one was biting at my first asking price so
I did a couple price drops to move it fast.

[USAFSP]

Well if it gives you any hope I sold mine at $275 around a couple months ago. But that was only because I found a knife I needed to have and no one was biting at my first asking price so
I did a couple price drops to move it fast.

That’s a much more reasonable price. A bit of a premium but not as bad. If I was just going to keep it in the safe and look at it then maybe $350 would be an investment but I want it as a user. If I’m dropping $350 on a user Spyderco it’s NOT one that cost $150 less originally lol... I’d just look for a LionSpy or go elsewhere for a Sebenza or Strider. No disrespect to those of you who have them or bought them for a lot more, or are selling them for a lot more but you can only ask those prices if someone is willing to pay them. I’m just not one of those guys. I’m sure one will pop up for a reasonable price or for trade sooner or later and I’ll snag it.

[marthinus]

2 things to remember.

1. There are only 500 of these in circulation.
2. I believe Sal mentioned that there wont be another M4/G10/RIL knife because it just cost to much to produce. So no more.

So, therefore simple economics of supply and demand. There is a decrease in availability (quantity) on the open market, therefore the price will increase as the equilibrium shifts towards the left along the demand line.



I hate to sound like I am giving a lecture but I just hope to give some insight. The fact is the market states majority of people are willing to pay $370 for a limited run of knives give or take a few dollars. It has happened to many other models and companies.

[USAFSP]

I don’t need a lesson on how supply and demand works. I’m just saying I’m not willing to pay that kind of premium to a guy that paid $210 just so I can get it and make a user out of it. The knife just isn’t worth that much money. If it was sold at the $300+ price tag then the re-sale at that price would be understood. It’s a $200 knife. I’m not a collector. Some person buying one just to flip it and make money isn’t something I’ll allow myself to get involved in. This isn’t real-estate. I can afford to buy one at the $300+ price tag, I’m just not morally going to allow myself to purchase one under those circumstances. It would be a bad investment on my part. I don’t care how many were made. That’s just not my style. We’re not talking real commodities being traded on the open market. It’s a knife. I guarantee if you asked Sal what he thought about this he would say “No comment”.

I feel bad for starting this thread actually because no doubt some people will be bothered by my thoughts. I just didn’t realize this kind of thing was going on with these knives. I stopped collecting in 2007 and this wasn’t such a big thing at the time. I have spent high dollar amounts on custom and mid-tech knives so it’s not the price that I don’t like, it’s the morals of it. It’s not like the prices went up over the years due to popularity. It’s like this... Spyderco releases a knife you buy it then the run is over and you double your money. That is flat out greed and the people willing to pay the prices are more to blame as those charging them. They are driving the market and are the problem. As an enthusiast I can’t allow myself to be a part of that kind of nonsense. I’d rather not have the knife.

[marthinus]

I don’t need a lesson on how supply and demand works. I’m just saying I’m not willing to pay that kind of premium to a guy that paid $210 just so I can get it and make a user out of it. The knife just isn’t worth that much money. If it was it would have sold for that much. If it was sold at the $300+ price tag then the re-sale at that price would be understood. It’s a $200 knife. I’m not a collector. If I was to get lucky enough to find a store that had a old stock version they would charge the price that it was sold at. Some person buying one just to flip it and make money isn’t something I’ll get involved in. This isn’t real-estate. I can afford to buy one at the $300+ price tag, I’m just not morally going to allow myself to purchase one under those circumstances. It would be a bad investment on my part. I don’t care how many were made. The fact is people bought them and generated some trumped up prices and people are willing to pay it. I’m not going to say those people are dumb or not, because to each his own, but I’m not hard up enough for a new knife to fuel those kind of business ethics. That’s just not my style. We’re not talking real commodities being traded on the open market. It’s a knife. I guarantee if you asked Sal what he thought about this he would say “No comment”.

I am not trying to give you a lesson and that was not my intention. Merely stating my opinion on why I believe the knives have the asking price they have. As with any of the other comments about a knife's "worth" that is up to each person to decide and that is their opinion and I respect that.

[USAFSP]

I am not trying to give you a lesson and that was not my intention. Merely stating my opinion on why I believe the knives have the asking price they have. As with any of the other comments about a knife's "worth" that is up to each person to decide and that is their opinion and I respect that.

Oh I can respect that to a point but I don’t have to involve myself in it, which I won’t. My thoughts on what it’s worth is what Spyderco sold them at, period. I get the whole collector’s value but my initial posts explain that I want it as a user so it’s a total waste of money for me to pay the premium which collectors will pay for the sake of investment/collection whereas I would put the knife through the roll of EDC and it would get used very well. This is why I said those prices would be a poor investment for me since I know what the knife really cost.

[hank_rearden]

the point is it'll be very hard to buy them at the cost you want. very often the original price becomes irrelevant after some time.

but you know, i agree in a way. i want people to buy knives, keep them and use them. too many knives sitting it out in a safe, and awaiting resale at a high price. it's not very healthy for a manufacturing industry. well, that drawback is somehow eased by the fact that people buy several units. but if we're talking about sprint runs, i suppose the collector bug is too strong to ignore.

the downside to collecting should also be obvious. most 10+ year old knives, while still serviceable, have been superceded technologically. any appreciation in value will be difficult.

[AF]

the downside to collecting should also be obvious. most 10+ year old knives, while still serviceable, have been superceded technologically. any appreciation in value will be difficult.

That's a good point.

[USAFSP]

Very true... I looked at it like this. My favourite steel in one of my favourite knife designs with a frame lock, which I also really like. I can really enjoy and get some solid use out of this knife. Then I saw what was going on. We’re not talking something like a Damascus Delica. The sprint runs are awesome and I like the idea of limited numbers or else there would just be too many versions of the same knife available. I get it... But price hiking on a knife designed for heavy use because a group of people deem it a collector’s piece? There are guys here that have posted that actually use theirs as intended. I bet those guys aren’t thinking about how much they are worth. The price is hiked by the collectors alone. I guarantee there is NO legitimate or formal list of worth, printed by a 3rd party stating they are actually worth these inflated prices. Not like rare coins, stamps, baseball cards and some other collectables. As a hobby, a few friends and I started playing the Magic card game like when we were younger, just for fun for card night instead of poker. There are cards that are worth a lot of money but there is a whole industry behind that which states the values. There are dealers charging those inflated costs and lists that show them as being legitimate prices... I heavily doubt you’ll find that with one of these knives and I’m willing to bet there are people that bought them that have no idea their knife became “worth” so much money. Of the 500 made I guarantee not all of them went to BF members and if one of those guys were to sell theirs, they would ask a reasonable price. I would wager fewer than 200 people bought one or two of these and thought to charge what they are charging. This isn’t proof of worth it’s highway robbery. Sorry but that’s just the truth.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I'm sure another reason the comment was made that it was a good deal, is because they have gone for close to $500 on Ebay if I'm not mistaken. So that price is actually at the lower end of what a NIB example can sell for. Doesn't mean you think it is a good deal, but if it is on the cheaper side then technically it is.

[USAFSP]

I'm sure another reason the comment was made that it was a good deal, is because they have gone for close to $500 on Ebay if I'm not mistaken. So that price is actually at the lower end of what a NIB example can sell for. Doesn't mean you think it is a good deal, but if it is on the cheaper side then technically it is.

I agree with you there. That’s a good point but still insane if you ask me lol

[hank_rearden]

i wonder if sal will care to answer this: how likely will people see a military/paramilitary with a solid zdp 189 blade? with a metal that's already used in the main manufacturing stream, and considered top-quality, i don't think people will need to pay through the nose for it.

[rycen]

The Military is a Golden made model so the chances of seeing it with a Japanese steel is slim to none.

[hank_rearden]

please don't kill the ideal straightaway. miracles do happen.

[elkins45]

I wonder what percentage of this particular sprint run is still NIB two years later?

I bought one but as soon as I opened the box I remembered why I didn't own a Military and still don't. I think I sold mine for $275 about a month after I bought it.

Look on the bright side: at least you don't want an S90V Manix 2!

[Joshua J.]

OK so kind of the same mess with Hinderer knives then. I’ll just wait to get in on the next pre-order to get a cool blade. I’m not going to give anyone the satisfaction of ripping me off for the sake of “Free Market” value. We’re not trading natural resources here. They are knives lol... I don’t need this knife that bad.

This is the reaction I expect from a normal, rational person. I guarantee there will be more sprint runs in the future that will be just as, if not more appealing than this one. You probably won't see much for framelock sprints from now on, but don't let that bother you, I think Spyderco does a much better job with the Liner lock on the Military.

[powernoodle]

I’m not going to give anyone the satisfaction of ripping me off for the sake of “Free Market” value.

The way I see it, its impossible to get ripped off. If you buy a G10/Ti Military for $375 on ebay, you must think it was worth it or you wouldn't have bought it. And if you think it was worth it, you weren't ripped off. Conversely, if you don't buy it for $375, you also weren't ripped off because you still have $375 in your pocket. So either way, the people who are actually involved can't get ripped off. Its the bystanders who are doing the complaining.

[goodeyesniper]

For those of you who weren't in the loop on this one, you'll be happy to know that the original purchasers of these amazing knives were on a waiting list for over a year before getting them And it was delayed, what, half a year??

It was worth it, though. Can't imagine a better knife. Period.

I guarantee there will be more sprint runs in the future that will be just as, if not more appealing than this one.

Impossible.