Why are most political posts on BF outside this subforum against democrats?

[BG42EDGE]

Socialism is collectivism, in which the independent decisions of individuals are replaced by the collective decisions of the "state"... the Constution limits the power of the "state".

Wait.......what?

Are you saying the people in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden don't vote?

Are you saying that the requirement to buy car insurance is unConstitutional?

Gun control?

Segregation?

Polygamy?

Maybe you should try again with a little more detail.

[timcsaw]

Wait.......what?

Are you saying the people in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden don't vote?

Are you saying that the requirement to buy car insurance is unConstitutional?

Gun control?

Segregation?

Polygamy?

Maybe you should try again with a little more detail.

What kind of "socialist" are you any way (that you don't recognize socialism)? Turn in your red card!

Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterised by social ownership and/or control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises.[2] There are many variations of socialism and as such there is no single definition encapsulating all of socialism.[3] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets versus planning, how management is to be organised within economic enterprises, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[4]

A socialist economic system would consist of an organisation of production to directly satisfy economic demands and human needs, so that goods and services would be produced directly for use instead of for private profit driven by the accumulation of capital, and accounting would be based on physical quantities, a common physical magnitude, or a direct measure of labour-time.[5][6] Distribution of output would be based on the principle of individual contribution.

As a political movement, socialism includes a diverse array of political philosophies, ranging from reformism to revolutionary socialism. Proponents of state socialism advocate for the nationalisation of the means of production, distribution and exchange as a strategy for implementing socialism. Libertarian socialism proposes to direct worker's control of the means of production and opposes the use of state power to achieve such an arrangement, opposing both parliamentary politics and state ownership over the means of production.[citation needed] Conversely, democratic socialism seeks to propagate the ideals of socialism within the context of a democratic system.

Modern socialism originated from an 18th-century intellectual and working class political movement that criticised the effects of industrialisation and private property on society. In the early 19th-century, "socialism" referred to any concern for the social problems of capitalism regardless of the solution. However, by the late 19th-century, "socialism" had come to signify opposition to capitalism and advocacy for an alternative system based on some form of social ownership.[7] Utopian socialists such as Robert Owen (1771–1858) tried to found self-sustaining communes by secession from a capitalist society. Socialists inspired by the Soviet model of economic development, such as Marxist-Leninists, have advocated the creation of centrally planned economies directed by a single-party state that owns the means of production. Yugoslavian, Hungarian, East German and Chinese communist governments have instituted various forms of market socialism, combining co-operative and state ownership models with the free market exchange and free price system (but not free prices for the means of production).[8]

[jdm61]

Actually, many thing that gun control is unconstitutional. As for segregation, that came about mostly at the hands of Democrat. LOL. IMO, Polygamy is illegal in part because BOTH sides have chosen to violate the First Amendment's establishment clause by regulating a religious sacrament, marriage.........yes, regulating both for straight and gay people too. As for car insurance, owning and operating a car is not a fundamental right.

Wait.......what?

Are you saying the people in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden don't vote?

Are you saying that the requirement to buy car insurance is unConstitutional?

Gun control?

Segregation?

Polygamy?

Maybe you should try again with a little more detail.

[BG42EDGE]

What kind of "socialist" are you any way (that you don't recognize socialism)?

Oh, but I do recognize it.

As I told you once already, I'm talking about Socialism as has been and is commonly practiced in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

[BG42EDGE]

Again, I'll be more specific and you try to be specific.

How would the Constitution forbid Socialism as has been and is commonly practiced in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden?

[Hog Feet]

How would the Constitution forbid Socialism as has been and is commonly practiced in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden?

Our consitution has nothing in it that would prevent Finland, Denmark, Norway, or Sweden from infringing on the rights of their own citizens in their respective countries.

[BG42EDGE]

That's SO right on and hilariously funny,......but that wasn't the question.

[Hog Feet]

That's SO right on and hilariously funny,......but that wasn't the question.

Do you want to be taken seriously?

[BlackKnight86]

No, it works.........period. That's obvious when you look at the happiness and satisfaction levels of the citizens in their countries as opposed to our disastrous situation.

Happiness and satisfaction levels are subjective; thus they are irrelevant in measuring the intrinsic effectiveness of something.

Your assessment of our "situation" as "disastrous" is also subjective to you, and equally irrelevant.

[BlackKnight86]

How would the Constitution forbid Socialism?

[cough] 10th Amendment [cough]

[philwar]

Wrong.

As I said, it's been working in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden for many years and it's still working just fine.

Yes you did say that. I replied that it only works to the degree that they allow free market capitalism to generate the wealth needed to pay for all the leftist charities. I also supplied some examples of where it stopped working because they choked capitalism too much (Greece). An even better example would be Soviet Russia and North Korea where people respectively were and are starving.
China is beginning to get rich because it has started to experiment with free market capitalism. Taiwan on the other hand has always been rich, at least since after WW2. Wonder why?

Now do me the courtesy of not repeating yourself a third time without coming up with an actual argument. Holland is another example of a socialist country with significant capitallist remnants - which are all that is keeping the place standing up. I know, I live here. It looks ok from the outside but healthcare is fast going down the drain, unemployment is up hard, retired and disabled people are receiving lower and lower benefits, the list goes on. The system is NOT working, and it only seemed to do so when there was so much money being made (by capitalists being taxed) that even the worst Leftist spenders were unable to do much harm.

[timcsaw]

[cough] 10th Amendment [cough]

Hey, I was holding that card.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[ttoney83]

You know, all this State's Rights and "those Powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the People" REALLY smacks of Socialism.......Just sayin, by the defintion timcsaw supplied above, it seems to put a LOT of authority in the hands of the People (Society) which implies a great deal of control of the direction of Society and Commerce in the hands of the People.
The way I see it, the so called "definition' of Socialism is so vague that it is completely useless to identify anyone, or any Nation as "Socialist." In fact, it seems to me that the word Socialist is used more often than not, as an attack on any policy which might hinder the monopolistic behaviors and tendencies of Corporatism (Fascism).

[timcsaw]

You know, all this State's Rights and "those Powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the People" REALLY smacks of Socialism.......Just sayin, by the defintion timcsaw supplied above, it seems to put a LOT of authority in the hands of the People (Society) which implies a great deal of control of the direction of Society and Commerce in the hands of the People.
The way I see it, the so called "definition' of Socialism is so vague that it is completely useless to identify anyone, or any Nation as "Socialist." In fact, it seems to me that the word Socialist is used more often than not, as an attack on any policy which might hinder the monopolistic behaviors and tendencies of Corporatism (Fascism).

I see what you are saying and to a great extent, agree. The "people" are free to enact and operate any charity/"socialist systems" that they desire as long as the State Governments, and Federal Government isn't involved.

[ttoney83]

I see what you are saying and to a great extent, agree. The "people" are free to enact and operate any charity/"socialist systems" that they desire as long as the State Governments, and Federal Government isn't involved.

Which is fine, and that's the point, but when the Federal Government is involved it actually becomes definable as more Fascist than "Socialist." At any rate, the American System of Political Economy is clear enough, except that no one teaches anything about it. One of these days, I need to put together a thread on that subject. Problem is that it would be VERY lengthy and I figure most would lose interest after the first paragraph. Such is the attention span of most people today.....

[ttoney83]

To the OP; One ought to be most concerned with determining the TRUTH of a particular issue rather than spewing a Party line. I hope a pursuit of the TRUTH guides your path in your future investigations into "Politics."

[timcsaw]

Which is fine, and that's the point, but when the Federal Government is involved it actually becomes definable as more Fascist than "Socialist." At any rate, the American System of Political Economy is clear enough, except that no one teaches anything about it. One of these days, I need to put together a thread on that subject. Problem is that it would be VERY lengthy and I figure most would lose interest after the first paragraph. Such is the attention span of most people today.....

True. There some "fine lines" between fascism, socialism and communism... I'm not a fan of any of them... I'm a US Constitution lovin' kinda' guy. Second greatest pen to paper ever written IMO (Robert's Rules of Order comes in third )

[highpointforge]

I'm a daily CHL carry/ gun toting, edc knife wearing, INFI knife loving, night vision pig hunting, law school educated, brazilian jiu jitsu practicing DEMOCRAT, a Jew, and I give Obama $1000 a month as well as the Democratic Congress Committee. I will vote for him again in November. My maternal grandfather attended Harvard, My paternal grandparents immigrated from Europe to get a head start here and my family has done well. I'm married to a Presbyterian, my mother is half Jewish, half Episcopalian, my siblings' in-laws are Catholics, and nobody fights in my family. I started hunting at age 7 with my physician and naval officer father.

Don't assume that knives and guns and tough guy stuff is for conservatives only. If you have taken Con Law 1 and 2 you are allowed to interpret the Constitution. Otherwise, you aren't.

[timcsaw]

I'm a daily CHL carry/ gun toting, edc knife wearing, INFI knife loving, night vision pig hunting, law school educated, brazilian jiu jitsu practicing DEMOCRAT, a Jew, and I give Obama $1000 a month as well as the Democratic Congress Committee. I will vote for him again in November. My maternal grandfather attended Harvard, My paternal grandparents immigrated from Europe to get a head start here and my family has done well. I'm married to a Presbyterian, my mother is half Jewish, half Episcopalian, my siblings' in-laws are Catholics, and nobody fights in my family. I started hunting at age 7 with my physician and naval officer father.

Don't assume that knives and guns and tough guy stuff is for conservatives only. If you have taken Con Law 1 and 2 you are allowed to interpret the Constitution. Otherwise, you aren't.

Hey, how 'bout that! "I'm" a whole lot of the same things you "are"... Except I'm not confused! (just a joke dude.)

[Hog Feet]

If you have taken Con Law 1 and 2 you are allowed to interpret the Constitution. Otherwise, you aren't.

In which amendment can that be found?