Please help me with German pocket knife: S Koln

[Levak]

Help me to identify maker of pocket knife.

Thank you.

[lambertiana]

I don't know the maker, but Köln is a city on the Rhine. The S is probably a merchant or brand mark of some kind.

[bernard_levine]

It is an advertising knife.

The S logo identifies the company that gave away the knife. It is located in Koln = Cologne.

The logo on the tang of the blade, of two people, is the brand of the maker. It is located in Solingen, upriver from Koln. But I don't know who it is (or was).

Google is very good for identifying names. It is very bad at identifying images, such as logos. Maybe someday...

BRL...

[Humppa]

Hi Levak,
Hi Bernard,

I´ve seen this logo already in a german knife-magazine. I must search through all the issues. Maybe I can find some more infos about that brand. I´ll take a look, if I can find something out...

Kind regards

[Levak]

Thanks.
I hope that somebody recognize the logo(two men 0r man & woman) and maker, may be it is early twins logo?

[bernard_levine]

Thanks.
I hope that somebody recognize the logo(two men 0r man & woman) and maker, may be it is early twins logo?

Not early. Not twins.

BRL...

[mtangent]

F. Wilhelm Jordan, Solingen - Wald.

http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/Makers.php

I have no information about them.

[basser5]

mtangent is correct. The trademark is that of F.W. Jordan. It is two Dutch children dancing. Founded in 1867,
Registered the mark in 1898.



Tim

[Humppa]

Though I´m not the TO, thank you guys for the information. I searched through my german knife magazines. Couldn´t find the information anywhere.

But thanks for the explanation on the logo

Kind regards
Andi

[germania]

I doubt that the knife's marking does match with J.W. Jordan's registered trademark:



let's continue researching ...

regards
germania

[mtangent]

The makers mark in the OP is a much closer match to the sample in the link I posted.
It seems to me that the German cutlers were more interested in the subject of the mark, rather than the exact image.

Of course, that makes it easier to counterfeit, but I don't see why anybody would counterfeit an advertising knife.

[Levak]

Thank you very much.

[Levak]

Thank you very much.

[Ishrub]

Could be a Carl Schaaf mark listed here in John Walter's GERMAN BLADESMITHS An illustrated guide to the brand names, trademarks and monograms found on swords, knives, cutlery, razors and bladed tools, 1871-1945

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...3c2YKPtJdobm5Q

Description available only
People: two skating: Carl Schaaf



There was a razor blade maker of that name operating in the 1920s- 30s
"Carl Schaaf, Solingen, Bismarckstrasse 98 in 1920, 1922, 1925, 1932 and 1939. Brand names: 'Die Gute 5pfg.-Klinge', 'Schaaso', 'Schaaso-Populär', 'Shakespeare', 'Shakespeare Klinge', 'Veni Vidi Vici', 'Wilhelmus', 'Wilhelmus-Auslese', 'Wilhelmus-Gold'. Open-blade razor and razor-blade maker."
Source: http://www.archivingindustry.com/cut...azormakers.htm

[mtangent]

The way that is written, Ishrub, implies "one child skating."
Two lines lower it mentions "two Dutch children."

[germania]

… It seems to me that the German cutlers were more interested in the subject of the mark, rather than the exact image.

Of course, that makes it easier to counterfeit, but I don't see why anybody would counterfeit an advertising knife.

I disagree that cutlers might have been interested more in the subject of their mark(s) rather than the exact image. The mark stencils were crafted by highly experienced specialists and were extremely detailed. Used frequently the might have been torn out and the mark showd up slightly unclear or the grinding and polishing process caused an incomplete image of the mark. I am convinced that the mark is a different subject compared with this Jordan cutler knife:



I agree that there is no reason to counterfeit the Jordan mark.

regards
germania

[mtangent]

Marks change over time. How many times have you tried to track down a makers mark, to find 2 or 3 examples from the same manufacturer?
They are often exactly the same subject, just drawn differently. I had always thought this was just a time based thing: physical tools, including trademark stamps, wear out. New stamps can be subtly different, or sometimes purposefully very different. Manufacturers that survived a century or more would have gone through many stamps.

Examples such as Carl Eickhorn, Josef Hack, F W Holler, & many more can be seen on this link
http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/Makers.php

I agree that Germania's example is different to the OP example.
Maybe this means different manufacturers, maybe it means they were made a decade apart with a different tool. I don't know.

Germania, you obviously know more than I do, but how do you explain so many different, but similar marks from the same manufacturer?

[germania]

Marks change over time. How many times have you tried to track down a makers mark, to find 2 or 3 examples from the same manufacturer?
They are often exactly the same subject, just drawn differently. I had always thought this was just a time based thing: physical tools, including trademark stamps, wear out. New stamps can be subtly different, or sometimes purposefully very different. Manufacturers that survived a century or more would have gone through many stamps.

Examples such as Carl Eickhorn, Josef Hack, F W Holler, & many more can be seen on this link
http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/Makers.php ...

Germania, ... how do you explain so many different, but similar marks from the same manufacturer?

You are correct that (some!) makers' marks 'changed over time', anyway not necessarily. Some cutlers ALWAYS and for decades used UNCHANGED ones.

I am no marketing expert but I am convinced that such Carl Eickhorn examples (which are incomplete, additional ones were used) are mainly stating a simple reason: different 'modernized' squirrels obviously matched with a different 'fashion' or 'state of art' (so did for example J.A. Henckels with the TWINS logo, Lauterjung & Sohn with the PUMA logo, and others, too)

Altered 'completed combinations' of a trademark (or brandname) in regards with a circle, oval or other surrounding or sometimes used with additional terms might have been caused by competing makers, that used similar style markings or were created to cause extra attention to the terms.
Finally additional information might have made it much easier for the customer to learn the firm's / cutler's name, who had crafted the knife.

...I had always thought this was just a time based thing: physical tools, including trademark stamps, wear out. ...

That definitively is correct. But the professional tool makers were experts of their job and could duplicate the stamps.
This illustration does show a box with vintage cutlery stencils, some of them are IDENTICAL ones.



regards
germania

[mtangent]

Thank you, Germania.

[germania]

Could be a Carl Schaaf mark listed here in John Walter's GERMAN BLADESMITHS An illustrated guide to the brand names, trademarks and monograms found on swords, knives, cutlery, razors and bladed tools, 1871-1945
....
Description available only
People: two skating: Carl Schaaf

I had the oportunity to track the mark in question:



regards
germania