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Thread: How do you want your taxes to be raised?

  1. #1
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    How do you want your taxes to be raised?

    Consider this article from the NYT via MSNBC.

    Regardless of how the November elections turn out, at the first of the year Congress is staring down the twin barrels of a fiscal shotgun they themselves loaded and cocked, and whose trigger time and mathematics will pull in January. First, the already once-extended Bush tax cuts expire. To compound the problem, automatic budget cuts (aka "sequestration") are set to kick in to achieve particular amounts of deficit reduction since back in 2011 the ill-fated "super-committee" failed to come up with an agreement themselves. Per the agreement, half the cuts will come from defense spending, and half from domestic spending. The amounts are not small.

    Now Congress is going to have to figure out how to respond to the situation, and juggle three difficult and hopelessly interlinked factors: spending, taxes and the deficits. None of the choices are good, and some of them aren't even politically feasible.

    Once choice is of course to do nothing, in which case taxes rise and hundreds of billions of dollars will be cut from the federal budget. This will do wonders for the deficit, at least in the short term, but will be politically and economically disastrous. This option goes nowhere, unless Congress is feeling not only suicidal, but murderous. Or unless it's so dysfunctional that it can't do anything else, which is really another way of saying it feels suicidal.

    Another possibility is that Congress could extend the Bush tax cuts and hold the deficit line, which would result in even more draconian spending cuts. This is if anything even less feasible. Sequestration can be avoided only to the extent that Congress agrees to make conscious choices about the spending cuts. But Democrats will be unwilling to add more of the reduction to the domestic side in order to save the Pentagon budget, and Republicans won't be willing to cut the military even more than would happen if the Bush cuts expire. This scenario, too, simply will not happen.

    What this means is that in addition to the spending cuts that everybody expects and are more or less resigned to, any credible solution will include either increases in (a) taxes or (b) deficits, or far more likely (c) both. Nobody gains much from this, but it does pose more of a political problem for Congressional Repugs, who have taken supposedly immovable "cold dead hands" stands against both deficits and taxes. This made for good and highly successful political theater, but in the end, you can't really change the laws of arithmetic. There are a few right-wing crazies who are willing to let everything go down the tubes in the service of their declared principles, but most are going to crack in the face of reality. Even many of the ones who owed their electability to fiery Tea Partyish rhetoric will be exposed as being among those who have the courage of the knife but lack the courage of the blood, as the saying goes. Forgive my schadenfreude, but it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

    The questions are to what extent Congress is willing to cook the books to hide the deficit or to vote to back out of the deficit reduction plan it made with itself, and how much pain they are willing to inflict on the Pentagon. Either way, some tax increases--or for those who can't face the truth, "revenue enhancements"--are coming down the line. So what are your ideas for how taxes should be increased? Shall we go for corporations/businesses, or for coupon-clipping capital-gains babies like Mitt Romney, or for high-income individuals of all kinds, or shall we simply continue to shift more of the burden to the middle class again? Oh yeah, this is going to be fun.
    Last edited by OliverH; 06-07-2012 at 03:22 PM.
    “Whether the knife falls on the melon or the melon on the knife, the melon suffers.” -- African Proverb

  2. #2
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    Prolly some sort nation wide tobacco tax like my state tried to increase. $100 per carton or something. I say legalize weed and tax it.

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  3. #3
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    Tarrifs for me thanks.
    malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

  4. #4
    Inflation. Fixes the toxic asset problem and just about everything else too.

    Of course, then you have inflation.

  5. #5
    You cannot tax what isn't there. The government will scale back services, especially to the entitled masses which have been Obama's core base. The simplest move would be to eliminate all transfers to illegals, to shrink or eliminate the TSA, and to pull back many of the regulatory agencies. The elimination of Obama Care alone will save $trillions. Then there is the costly banking and financial sectors which need to be reigned in to cut off wildly speculative investment banking from FDIC underwriting; in short a return to Glass Steagall. To the extent that new taxes may be levied, they should take the form of protective tariffs, to spark off domestic production.

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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by quietmike View Post
    Tarrifs for me thanks.
    Ditto!
    Reenact the Glass Steagall Act in its original 1933 form.
    Nationalize the Federal Reserve. (eliminates the need for Federal Income Tax)
    Cancel all bailouts QEs etc. of all the illegitimate gambling losses (700 trillion worth)
    Return to a BImetallic monetary standard (Gold AND Silver; holds spending down naturally.)

    The situation now is that the Federal Reserve and its associated banks are hopelessly bankrupt. It is their gambling losses which are holding the Nation hostage and the Federal Reserve is holding the gun to our heads. The system WILL be put through a bankruptcy reorganization sooner or later. There is no other option. The only question is WHO will do the reorganizing and under what terms. The terms above are our only option.

    How to break out of this Depression:
    Reenact the Glass Steagal Act in its original 1933 form. (This forces the breakup of all those "too big to fail" banks, which have only gotten bigger, by forcing the banks to make a simple choice; You will be EITHER a commercial lender, OR an investment gambler ("banker") NOT BOTH.

    Declare the Federal Reserve bankrupt (because it is) and put it through a bankruptcy reorganization, eliminating ALL illegitimate derivatives and securities gambling losses that THEY and their associated banks created. Reestablish the National Bank as the 3rd National Bank of America.

    Go back on a bimetallic currency standard.

    With the Power to coin the money and regulate the value thereof back in the hands of Congress, the Congress now utters credit into the system BUT ONLY for infrastructure type projects which will get people working again, almost literally overnight. THIS is how government creates jobs; by providing financing for large projects, which it does by creating the credit to do it WITHOUT borrowing from a private bankster at interest. In this way, debt is created BUT, the means to extinguish the debt are ALSO created, unlike the current system.

    To bring industry back to the U.S. ELIMINATE ALL CORPORATE TAXES and instead tax the sale and put tarrifs on imports, even if those imports come from a company which claims to be American but is manufacturing overseas.

  7. #7
    Let's talk about raising taxes after the government cuts spending (basic problem solving).
    Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

  8. #8
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    Since I'm not rich......my taxes will not be raised.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Mike View Post
    I say legalize weed and tax it.
    This. I would be absolutely stoked to pay tax on legal weed.
    -Andy

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG42EDGE View Post
    Since I'm not rich......my taxes will not be raised.


    That little tidbit is very telling.
    malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by quietmike View Post
    That little tidbit is very telling.
    I was thinking the same thing... .
    Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by quietmike View Post
    That little tidbit is very telling.
    Also completely incorrect. If the Bush tax cuts expire his tax cuts WILL be raised. When / if obamacare goes into effect his tax rates WILL be raised.

  13. #13
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    Shutdown the entire Federal government for three months out of the year, except for the most minimal services necessary to ensure national security. That's right, send all those bureaucrats, lobbyists and politicians home every year for three months with no pay. But spread it out over the course of the year so the felt impact on the nation is small. In fact, randomize the shutdowns and don't announce them in advance so that ne'er-do-wells won't see them coming and so won't be able to plan ahead. Of course, that might mean that some family vacations to a national park gets ruined but, hey, that's what you get for voting for big government advocates.

    Then, raise taxes on all the people who want to raise taxes because they don't pay any so there's no pain in it for them. I suggest a hefty VAT on food, clothing, cigarettes, booze, and cable TV service. And, yeah, legalize weed and tax the hell out of it.

    Finally, sell something not very important to the Chinese. I vote for San Francisco.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triton View Post
    Also completely incorrect. If the Bush tax cuts expire his tax cuts WILL be raised. When / if obamacare goes into effect his tax rates WILL be raised.
    Not applicable. Bush tax cuts will expire only for the rich......as it should be.

    Not true. Obamacare is in effect and my taxes haven't gone up.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
    Shutdown the entire Federal government for three months out of the year, except for the most minimal services necessary to ensure national security.
    Ah, the Republican "Blow up the Country" plan.


  16. #16
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    O'bamacare health insurance reform hasn't gone into effect yet. And hopefully never will.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG42EDGE View Post
    Ah, the Republican "Blow up the Country" plan.

    Sometimes the correct approach is demolition followed by a complete rebuild.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gurewitch in "Charlie Sheen vs. Ron Burgundy"
    I am a werewolf stampede. I will stomp on your infant minds with my righteous fuzzy toes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esav Benyamin View Post
    Computers always need more memory.
    Bags always need more capacity.

  18. #18
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    Interesting that spending cuts are referred to as draconian, but the taxes are not.

    Solution is simple. Give the government just nough money to protect our borders and man our nukes, cut everything else.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudak View Post
    Interesting that spending cuts are referred to as draconian, but the taxes are not.

    Solution is simple. Give the government just nough money to protect our borders and man our nukes, cut everything else.
    I agree.

    The answer to your question is that the spending cuts hurt the already hurting poor......while the tax increases don't hurt the rich at all--they still have plenty of money to live a life of luxury.

    (Draco was Greek politician who proposed death for almost every violation of the law.)

  20. #20
    Envy much?
    Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

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