Ideas for Practical Stick Fighting?

**medcommander** · 06-07-2012, 04:56 PM

I've been looking at stick fighting alot lately. I like the down to earth practicality of it, and the fact that it gives its user a variety of attacks and defenses to choose from. I find that I am often carrying some sort of stick whether it be a walking staff, trekking poles, hammer, etc... All are blunt trauma weapons and can be used in a similar fashion with some modifications and training.

Honestly though I've found that practical stick fighting is hard to come by, and while many martial arts incorporate sticks of some sort they are not implemented in a practical way. Like knife fighting I've found that many styles use outdated techniques and have lost their martial foundations. I do not want a weapon to practice fancy moves I want one that I can imploy instantaneously to defend myself. I'm an outdoorsman so while my knife may be on my belt a staff is usually in my hand ready to go when needed, and in the city a walking staff looks non threatening and can be used to defend against a knife or to simply bash an attackers head in.

The best stick fighting methodology's I have found have been the older Filipino styles, Irish stick fighting, Combatives programs, and even some more practically applicated traditional eastern styles. I personally like the longer walking sticks and staffs because they give you more reach and versatility, but I find that there is little out there, besides bo staff spinning techniques, that give instruction on the use of these weapons.

This has been on my brain for a while now, and I thought I would get yalls opinion on it. Do you think a stick is a practical weapon? Do you know of any practical teachings? Do you carry some sort of impact weapon for self defense? How would you implement it in a violent scenario? How do you think a person with a stick would fair against multiple attackers, knives, guns,etc...? Do you think it could be used as a defensive weapon against attacking animals?

I'd love to get your views and feedback on the matter.

-MC

**SeaxyBeast** · 06-07-2012, 09:30 PM

Don't have much to say to start with except that sticks are very practical in the sense that it is one of the few weapons that are likely to be just lying about in various guises when you suddenly find yourself in unexpected danger. Not many people find a gun just lying by the path when they are walking through the park, and even if you carry another weapon, if something were to happen to it and you were forced to improvise the next most likely thing you will find is some variation on the impact weapon. Given this, it makes sense to know how to use one and to defend yourself against one in those cases where the other guy(s) find it first.

**Edwood7** · 06-07-2012, 10:01 PM

Learning to fight with a stick translates to a lot of other weapons of opportunity. I have been training with stick for about 2 years now, and I have translated a lot of what I learned with them in to my knife and ground fighting (adding a knife or a stick adds a whole new dimension to grappling) and empty hand training.

Look in to the Dog brothers martial arts. They do some good work with the stick.

**TornadoRaino** · 06-07-2012, 10:39 PM

Kali , escrima, arnis. Very practical and what you learned with a stick can translate to knife. It is the only martial art that you learn weapons first and then empty hand applications which are based on the same principles.

**Blackfeather** · 06-07-2012, 10:54 PM

Pure stick fighting, most of the Filipino stuff is likely to be your best bet. I think some places focus on the blade aspect, and don't show how versatile a stick can be.

I come from a Kendo/iaido/kenjustsu background, and I've done some Filipino stuff, and while I enjoy it, it's hard for me to switch over. I've been doing Chinese Swordsmanship now, and I think I can translate it to sticks better.... If you practice something else now, or plan to in the future, keep the two similar enough that you can enjoy them but not have them contradict each other.

**numbersman** · 06-08-2012, 01:02 AM

There is plenty of good stuff on DVD that you can check out while trying to find somewhere to train. Kelly Worden has some good stuff on stick fighting, I own his single stick DVD. In terms of books, see if you can get some old Bruce Tegner books, he did a good one on practical (and basic) stick fighting.

**TornadoRaino** · 06-08-2012, 03:44 AM

Sorry I misunderstood the question earlier so my post is probably confusing.

As for me, I studied martial arts for about ten years with the last five years or so studying Arnis. I think it is an extremely practical martial art to learn and train in. First you learn strikes, defensive maneuvers with the stick and angles. The practical thing about this is that the same techniques can be used not only with a stick but with a knife, an umbrella, a pen, whatever is handy. Martial arts usually take a long time to learn, but comparatively the fundamentals of the Filipino styles can be learned very quickly.

I usually carry a knife of the tactical sort but these days I carry it because I like the utility aspect of having a knife with me, it's just handy. I keep a tactical flashlight with me at night, something I can stun someone with and has some rigid edges that could cause some discomfort. If an expendable baton were legal, I would carry that but I don't really carry an impact weapon, it's just too much stuff and I don't wander into dangerous neighborhoods if I can help it.

Against multiple attackers I'll take a stick although it would be useless one someone closes the distance on you. Against a gun you better run. Against a knife you should run too, but I'll take a stick over nothing. Against an animal? I dunno.

Stick training and weapon training is a good way to level the playing field against larger, stronger opponents. I'm not big, I'm not super strong, but with a stick I'll feel a lot more comfortable against a really big guy. You can even give him a stick too.

I like that impact weapons give you some options in the respect of non lethal force. Knifes are great for self defense when your life is on the line, but if it's not then you can't and shouldn't be drawing a blade on someone.

I feel what I've learned has been beneficial to me. I also feel that all martial arts will serve you well as long as you train hard.

Thanks for listening to my 2 cents!

**Black Knife** · 06-08-2012, 04:03 AM

The chances you will find two guys fighting each other with a stick are slim to none. After a few years of training in FMA's I found that learning all those fancy stick moves were useless in today's society. How many people walk around with a stick other than people that use a cane. If you feel you need stick training learn some very basic strikes with a stick and practice the basics as much as you can.

Out of all the styles of stick fighting I trained in I found the Balantiwak Escrima system the best for me because the blocking they use is perfect for a grappler. If there was a slim chance that I did have to go up against a person armed with an impact weapon I will use a blocks to close the distance and then get the clinch for a take down where a stick is useless for striking. I have developed some stick techniques for groundfighting but not too many people know any which is good for me.

**mwerner** · 06-08-2012, 04:18 PM

Even judo (at the higher levels of instruction) incorporates some stick (hanbo) forms. As pointed out, the only difficulty with the Filipino systems is that they are from a culture where weapon-on-weapon combat was common. Very common... Not only in internicene warfare but in set matches among practitioners.
The chances are you will need to use your chosen stick against a similarly-armed opponent are rather slim.

However, the principals remain sound, and that's the Filipino systems' long suit... Principals.

As with anything regarding self-defense, simpler is likely better. A few blocks, deflections, and controlling moves combined with essential strikes to the vulnerable spots will serve most rather well.

**TornadoRaino** · 06-08-2012, 04:40 PM

I agree that's very unlikely you ever face anyone with a stick, the usefulness of stick fighting really stems from the principals of stickfighting as mentioned earlier. You might not face someone with a stick but if someone swings at you with a beer bottle or baseball bat the angles are the same and it's defending from these types of attacks Kali/Arnis/Escrima has its uses. Also learning with the stick is also learning with a knife. The techniques are almost the same.

Like the guys mentioned above, it's best to have a well rounded approach to martial arts. When you get on the ground thats a whole new conversation.

**jmpainter** · 06-08-2012, 05:51 PM

Take a look at Burton Richardson's Battlefield Kali Videos.
The 'problem' with a lot of FMA is that they tend to get really classical about it without much actual application.
Burtons stuff is very straightforward

**jayinhk** · 06-08-2012, 09:25 PM

Stick fighting is very much an art: there are great techniques to be learned in eskrima for sure. Sure, not everyone carries a stick, but the OP does and learning how to fight with one can really help you employ one, especially if you spar against a variety of folks. I carry arnis (one light, one heavy) very often, and in the Philippines, I often back pocket carry compact nunchaku or shot loaded billy clubs/saps/blackjacks (they're legal to carry anywhere aside from airports there).

**hank_rearden** · 06-08-2012, 10:08 PM

i was informally trianed in various arnis styles. my favorite movement is the simple diagonal downward stroke from the right going to the left. you can do a triangular step either to right-forward or back step out of range from a counter. with practice, you can do a doblete (whirlwind double strike.) the masters can even do triple strikes with different foot movements.

i like to do it moving backwards. this technique is informally called 'teknik-duwag' (coward's technique) since it avoids close-in fighting and keeps you comfortably far, enough to react to any attack. a long and light one-handed stick is ideal here. i keep two homemade arnis weapons at home: a slim 3 1/2 -foot staff made from a branch of guava, and a 4 1/2 -foot bamboo whip (works a bit like a sjambok.)

**Daniel L** · 06-08-2012, 10:41 PM

I wonder just how fancy you need to make it. There's a solid section in Jim Grover / Kelly McCann's Combative Vol 2 on his take on practical stick fighting. There's a bit in Chapter 12 of Kill or Get Killed on longer "riot" sticks.

If you have plenty of training time and want to pursue the "art" then there are lots of FMA options. But if you're wanting to get effective fast, keeping it simple and then doing some sparring / drilling is the best way to go IMHO. I have a blast with friends (trained and untrained) with padded sticks and headgear.

I watch the Dog Brothers sparring on You Tube, and its pretty rare that you see anybody doing anything particularly fancy beyond basic strikes. Just the fundamentals of footwork, timing and aggressive action which you see in all sparring in all martial arts... all those cool forms and subtle blocks tend to dissolve under pressure.

**jayinhk** · 06-08-2012, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by hank_rearden

i was informally trianed in various arnis styles. my favorite movement is the simple diagonal downward stroke from the right going to the left. you can do a triangular step either to right-forward or back step out of range from a counter. with practice, you can do a doblete (whirlwind double strike.) the masters can even do triple strikes with different foot movements.

i like to do it moving backwards. this technique is informally called 'teknik-duwag' (coward's technique) since it avoids close-in fighting and keeps you comfortably far, enough to react to any attack. a long and light one-handed stick is ideal here. i keep two homemade arnis weapons at home: a slim 3 1/2 -foot staff made from a branch of guava, and a 4 1/2 -foot bamboo whip (works a bit like a sjambok.)

Hank, I didn't know that technique had a name.

Duwag ak0 e...hehe. I use the same technique: strike and into retirada or retirada while striking. Being 6'1 I have a reach advantage against most people here in Asia, which helps. When I'm in the woods I carry a heavy African blackwood walking stick that is turned to look like bamboo, and I also recently picked up a nice bamboo one and an Indonesian rattan one.

Originally Posted by Daniel L

I wonder just how fancy you need to make it. There's a solid section in Jim Grover / Kelly McCann's Combative Vol 2 on his take on practical stick fighting. There's a bit in Chapter 12 of Kill or Get Killed on longer "riot" sticks.

If you have plenty of training time and want to pursue the "art" then there are lots of FMA options. But if you're wanting to get effective fast, keeping it simple and then doing some sparring / drilling is the best way to go IMHO. I have a blast with friends (trained and untrained) with padded sticks and headgear.

I watch the Dog Brothers sparring on You Tube, and its pretty rare that you see anybody doing anything particularly fancy beyond basic strikes. Just the fundamentals of footwork, timing and aggressive action which you see in all sparring in all martial arts... all those cool forms and subtle blocks tend to dissolve under pressure.

Agreed: we spar every session and try and incorporate the techniques we'd been working on, but we're free to strike any which way. I really enjoy working with a variety of people of different sizes, both lefties and righties. I much prefer to stay well out of range at this point as I'm definitely not fast enough to parry everything at medyo range. Without the protection taking hard hits at medyo range can of course disable or kill.

**djjonny** · 06-09-2012, 12:12 AM

I can't think of better training than escrima for stick fighting.
At the moment I'm busy with Sinawali (getting there) and Abanico (suck at this) forms

Ditto on hank's fave strike

**SeaxyBeast** · 06-09-2012, 04:05 PM

Escrima techniques can get pretty subtle at times and different techniques have their own times and places. A 'showy' move may be intended for dueling rather than combat or it may be a low-percentage technique that one should only try because the chaos of the moment has put you halfway there already and no safer technique is left for you. Some techniques are better suited to blades than to sticks and vice versa.

If something seems overly complex or flashy and vulnerable to counter or failure then ask about it. If you have a good instructor and you are a trustworthy student then you may learn something important about why that particular technique is there. Or you may learn that your instructor doesn't know or wasn't told. If so it leaves you looking for the usefulness in that technique or discarding it in favor of a more useful option.

Either way, though, the most simple and safe response is always the best and is the one that should get the most of your attention in training.

Also, completely OT, I'd second or third the endorsements for Dog Brothers if what you want is escrima that has been adapted to focus on impact techniques over blade techniques. While it is true that escrima does well with cross-application and the transition from stick to blade to empty-hand, those translations do require somewhat different approaches and mindsets in application. Dog Brothers really grok the stick mindset.

**WindyCityKali** · 06-09-2012, 04:12 PM

I train regularly with a guy that's a Lameco instructor. He told me one time that stick fighting happens at two ranges - largo or long (smash and smash again) and corto or close (standing grappling).

However, most of the techniques that people study and teach happen on medium range - where the checking hand comes into play.

If you're looking for realistic stick offence and defense, stick with long and close ranges. Safe medium range for the last 15 minutes of class.