What do you think of the new Busse Sword?

[crimsonfalcon07]

Yep, the waki lengths are much more practical. You'll have to let me know how you like yours. I like a much shorter handle, personally, and more curve to the blade. The flat designs aren't really my cup of tea because they just don't cut the way I want them to if I use any of the techniques I'm trained in. I also would have to avoid a coated sword. Seems to me that the designs are more for krunk smashing than actual cutting. But I have no personal experience with them, so I can't say for sure. I do think the gladius would do okay at one of it's main functions (stabbing).

[BePrepared]

I will let you know.. i think they are priced VERY reasonably considering that similar tactical waki's go for 1200+ all the time

and if you don't like it, you can flip it AT A PROFIT the day after you get it.

as for the coating, i'm getting a black coated blade, and i don't think it'll be a problem. No one has indicated that it interferes with cutting

*edit... I have about a half dozen very well made knives made from 5160, 1095crovan, etc that were made for me by great makers and cost VERY little for what i got (Thanks CF, i love the kukri!)

But i don't think i could get my money back selling them. With a Busse, you KNOW that you can get your money back in an hour with one forum post, even AFTER you use it.

[dericdesmond]

I do think the gladius would do okay at one of it's main functions (stabbing).

Agree with this as long as you are buff enough to do such

[not2sharp]

well, i don't think anyone expects a busse to hold a shaving edge after batoning through a few bricks and a pipe.

The point of it is that doing that with MOST knives results in irreparable damage. With the busse, you just need a sharpener and an edge reprofile.

You are making Busse sound like the latest Ginsu knife.

Excuse me if do't go along with the miracle steel thing. I believe that any good cutlery steel that has been properly shaped, edged and heat treated will perform very much the same.

n2s

[crimsonfalcon07]

Yep, the reputation and diehard fan base is certainly something to consider for a collector. Resale value is certainly nice to have.

Coating induces drag though, and that interferes with cutting on every knife I've ever owned. One of the reasons that most of the Beckerheads strip their blades, for instance, and those coatings are a lot smoother than the textured coating on a Busse blade. I'd go for one of their satin finishes, most likely.

I'm still waiting for some videos though. I don't see that many cutting videos with Busse swords on the Tube. Jerry needs to send one of the swords from the OP to Isao Machii and see what he could do with it.

[dericdesmond]

I believe that any good cutlery steel that has been properly shaped, edged and heat treated will perform very much the same.

My wallet wishes that was the case.

[BePrepared]

You are making Busse sound like the latest Ginsu knife.

Excuse me if do't go along with the miracle steel thing. I believe that any good cutlery steel that has been properly shaped, edged and heat treated will perform very much the same.

n2s

Go to Youtube, search Busse Destruction Test, select the test by "KnifeTestsNoss" then watch all his videos... if you still maintain this position after that, i can't help you.

The short answer is, you're wrong... very VERY wrong.

*just to put this in perspective, 440a is commonly used in cutlery. Are you asserting that this steel, with proper heat treat, will perform as well as CPM M4 or similar "Supersteels"?

Steel makes a HUGE difference. You can do things to INFI (or 5160) that would snap other steels clean in half.

[FortyTwoBlades]

While I think that the new sword is an improvement over the pseudo-gladius in terms of actually qualifying well as a sword, and it looks fun, the thing it probably bears the strongest resemblance to is a modernized two-handed Swiss saber. From a geometry standpoint it's really not remotely similar to a katana, if the pics are fairly representative.

But yeah all they'll probably ever see is pool noodles and water bottles. Maybe a tatami mat or two. Anyone know if they have any distal taper? Was it mentioned already and I missed it?

Well-built, great materials, fair price, but not for me.

[crimsonfalcon07]

*just to put this in perspective, 440a is commonly used in cutlery. Are you asserting that this steel, with proper heat treat, will perform as well as CPM M4 or similar "Supersteels"?

I'd be inclined to say that he's more right than you are. I've personally seen a Cutco cleaver chop a chunk off of an engine block. That's 440A, which is generally not that great, but I have to say, the Cutco knives I own perform amazingly well, and have held a great edge for more than 6 months without so much as stropping. I've seen 1075 chop through the door of a car without even rolling the edge. Brab took his BK2 and chopped through cement blocks, refrigerators, and all kinds of things, and still had a functional knife at the end. Sure, maybe a Busse coulda done it better. But there are plenty of blades in a wide variety of steels that can survive serious abuse and still do just fine. Where 440A falls flat is in prying and such. But in terms of actual performance, I can personally testify that it can perform amazingly well if it's done right. I've got a butcher's knife in 440A that I've owned for 2 years, used heavily, and never resharpened, and it can still push cut paper or shave hair.

Heat treat is FAR more important than the steel type.

[ron_m80]

Go to Youtube, search Busse Destruction Test, select the test by "KnifeTestsNoss" then watch all his videos... if you still maintain this position after that, i can't help you.

The short answer is, you're wrong... very VERY wrong.

Stop, please. You were wrong the moment you said "go to you-tube" and built an argument with that. Not to mention, there are many EXPERIENCED posters here and some that are not.

I could fast forward into your knife hobby a few years and try to tell you that in the end, you will not be happy unless you have made your own blade, you hammered and heat treated yourself. Only then will you be satisfied that from element to design it was done right. That could save you a ton of money if you just start there.

[FortyTwoBlades]

Steel makes a HUGE difference. You can do things to INFI (or 5160) that would snap other steels clean in half.

What about if the steel was annealed?

[miller bros blades]

I would put a Busse Gladius against ANY sword on the market in a destruction test and cash to back it up

INFI is fantastic material, and while i know that well made 5160 is extremely tough, it's not the equal of INFI.

Busse blades have survived testing that was simply mind blowing... they've batoned through concrete, steel pipe, sheet metal, microwaves, toasters, steel bolts, bricks, and one more than one occasion, cars

In no way am I detracting from your sword, which looks to be very well made, but i'd say with as much conviction as one can have without having SEEN something happen, that a busse gladius could match one of your swords in any test you choose

First of all MAN do you work for Busse or what? That post was like a love song. LOL

A Busse Gladius is only 0.3 thick ours is a strong 5/16. and double handed. Our sword is also over 2in longer. My point is, and you helped me make this point better then I could have, The Idea that INFI is the only steel that can do the things in Busse's promo "youtube" video, is just plain bad science. I understand, and can tell by your post that you are a die hard busse fan. Thats fine. They make a very nice product. I only live about an hour from busse's shop. when they first started, they sold knives at our local gun show. I am as familiar as anyone with there work. to understand what metal can really do, I think you have to work with it, and understand it. that is something that a person who has never made a knife would not understand. as far as testing our sword against a Gladius. I do not have the money or desire to trash a gladius ( thats what it would take to see what it can really do) besides i am sure busse already did that. (not on the web site). We tested our sword to the breaking point, more for us then our customers. I wanted to be able to tell people that we made a sword as indestructable as we could make it. does it smash through cement block? yes. can it cut a car door in half? yes. I have done everything that is in that video to our sword. does that mean mine is better? not really. Different steel, similar results. is that so hard to believe.

it takes more then a glossy picture for me to fall in love.

don't everyone go and break there swords this weekend come on.

[miller bros blades]

I would put a Busse Gladius against ANY sword on the market in a destruction test and cash to back it up

INFI is fantastic material, and while i know that well made 5160 is extremely tough, it's not the equal of INFI.

Busse blades have survived testing that was simply mind blowing... they've batoned through concrete, steel pipe, sheet metal, microwaves, toasters, steel bolts, bricks, and one more than one occasion, cars

In no way am I detracting from your sword, which looks to be very well made, but i'd say with as much conviction as one can have without having SEEN something happen, that a busse gladius could match one of your swords in any test you choose

reading your post again, you said you weren't "detracting from our sword". I know that not everyone will like our work, so I am not offended, but I think you said that anything that was not INFI was junk. wow

Our goal was to make the most powerfull blade that could still be carried on the side of a pack. 10 years ago I was looking for just such a blade, and could not find it. (including busse) I still do not think that there is anything like it. I am not trying to sell you a sword, thats just why we made it.

[Toxie]

If you're referring to the new one, i definitely agree... it's more of a curio IMHO...

The AK47 is busse's perfect operator sword. 18" blade, light and fast.

The RUK is the shorter version at 15" and is possibly even better from the operator perspective

Really? Did you really use "operator", "sword" and "perfect" in the same sentence? Cmon man, real operators don't carry swords. I've been a cop for a decade and a half, and have never heard ONE of our SRT guys EVER mention a sword. a sword has exactly ZERO place on the modern battlefield. At least a tomahawk has utility as a hatchet and weighs far less. Don't kid yourself, ALL of those swords (while very cool) are just mall ninja tacti-cool.

Do I want one? Sure do. As a tactical tool? Non-starter.

Second point: There is an seems to be an aweful lot of "This thing performs better then XXX! (or similar)" from a sword no one has used yet. It may rock, it may suck, but giving a product an automatic pass (and touting such) before it's even been tested is just a fail out of the gate.

[FortyTwoBlades]

In his defense, a sword/machete hybrid WOULD be handy for jungle operations. But not very viable in the "big sandbox" where breaching and urban work are most common.

[Toxie]

I would certainly give you machete, or large knife.

A machete and a Busse Sword are hugely different animals. Most "Operators" don't use them as weapons, and have halligan tools available if they need to pry or breach.

An actual SWORD is just extra weight (and cost) you have to lug, and usually less useful then a machete or large knife. That's prettymuch a given, because you don't see them anywhere, or issued to anyone.

I'm not saying they aren't badass cool, but don't try selling a Busse sword as tactical greatness when its total fantasyland. If Busse wants a real tactical tool they could make an infi entrenching tool.

Another aside, but I too would bet the miller bros sword is every bit as good as the Busse gladius, Busse is great stuff but they don't have a patent on great, and the millers are true customs.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Also in his defense, I've definitely heard of special ops folks carrying wakizashis, such as some by Wally Hayes. There was actually a magazine article last year (I believe in Tactical Knives) that discussed this very topic, and argued that swords DO still have a place on the modern battlefield. Perhaps not useful to a police officer, but then, the police aren't supposed to kill people, and that's a pretty big difference between, say, SRT and a special ops unit.

I have no military experience myself aside from being a military spouse (and the wife is in the medical portion, not combat), nor have I been personally able to confirm one way or another. But there are certainly some references that indicate that swords aren't as useless on the modern battlefield as many might believe.

The katana from the OP, on the other hand, I would expect is way too long, if nothing else, to be useful. But I wouldn't presume to say a short sword has ZERO use on the modern battlefield, as there's some evidence suggesting that some actually do get use out on the sharp end.

[FortyTwoBlades]

I would certainly give you machete, or large knife.

A machete and a Busse Sword are hugely different animals. Most "Operators" don't use them as weapons, and have halligan tools available if they need to pry or breach.

An actual SWORD is just extra weight (and cost) you have to lug, and usually less useful then a machete or large knife. That's prettymuch a given, because you don't see them anywhere, or issued to anyone.

I'm not saying they aren't badass cool, but don't try selling a Busse sword as tactical greatness when its total fantasyland. If Busse wants a real tactical tool they could make an infi entrenching tool.

Another aside, but I too would bet the miller bros sword is every bit as good as the Busse gladius, Busse is great stuff but they don't have a patent on great, and the millers are true customs.

Bear in mind that many swords issued to artillery troops around the Napoleonic era were intended as sword/machete hybrids and were mostly used for clearing artillery positions and the like but could be used for defense if the artillery positions were ambushed or overrun. The French nicknamed theirs the "cabbage cutter."

[Toxie]

So then is the Busse AK a MRE opener?

I don't dispute that they were used historically (even into WW1), I dispute that ANY actual sword has a NSN number and that 99.9%of the "tactical/operator/combat" stuff mentioned is simply marketing and mall-ninjatry. After all, I have CMMG "tactical bacon" in my pantry. Maybe the "tactical" Busse can open the tactical bacon for a win all around!

(aside)
I love swords, heck all midevil weaponry. Eventually I'll probably have a custom war pick made, since no one seems to make one of quality and that's my favorite midevil weapon.

[FortyTwoBlades]

So then is the Busse AK a MRE opener?

I don't dispute that they were used historically (even into WW1), I dispute that ANY actual sword has a NSN number and that 99.9%of the "tactical/operator/combat" stuff mentioned is simply marketing and mall-ninjatry. After all, I have CMMG "tactical bacon" in my pantry. Maybe the "tactical" Busse can open the tactical bacon for a win all around!

(aside)
I love swords, heck all midevil weaponry. Eventually I'll probably have a custom war pick made, since no one seems to make one of quality and that's my favorite midevil weapon.

And I'm in full agreement. Just pointing out that there are theoretical circumstances under which a sword-like item could be used in a modern military (note--not combat, specifically) role. That doesn't mean that they should start cranking them out under government contract.