Fire Steel?

[DeltaCypher0]

Howdy outdoor enthusiasts,
When crafting a fire, I've always used a lighter to ignite my tinder. I want to make the transition to the fire steel, but I had a few questions about which ones are better. I'll just list my concerns and hope some of you can help me out. There's a lot of good knowledge in these forums, and I've been soaking it all up.

1. Size
2. Which brand/type of steel should I carry?
3. Is it necessary to carry the striker that comes with them, or will my BK14 work sufficiently? My 14 isn't stripped, so will I need to remove the coating from the spine for it to strike properly?

That's about all the questions I have concerning the fire steels, please leave me any additional information about them that might be beneficial. I appreciate the feedback and love learning all I can.

Thanks and stay sharp!

[Grease]

Can't answer the first two, but I do know that with proper form a knife can ignite tinder on the first try. I believe you use the edge of the knife, so coating should be irrelevant.

[Aidansdaddy17]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFOpN...feature=fvwrel

Check out the Esee fire kit/starter also.

[cpurcell]

Sorry Grease, but never EVER use the blade edge of a knife to strike a firesteel. A knife with a nice crisp angle on the top, will perform best for throwing loads of sparks from a firesteel.
Simply hold the back of your knife (opposite the cutting edge) against the firesteel, draw the firesteel towards you (<- this is VERY important as some people learn the hard way.), and adjust the angle as needed to throw sparks.
If you instead push the knife forward, you're quite likely to ruin your tinder bundle or in some cases, damage your knife, knuckles, etc.
A crisp angle on the back of the knife works best because you're scraping the material off and it's igniting by friction, so slick coatings can cause issues, but a few seconds (or minutes I suppose) with some sandpaper should be able to free enough space for good striking surface. I have a BK2 that I haven't stripped and it works great with my firesteel, but I've been using them for a long time now. And yes, I learned to draw the firesteel towards me the hard way after I destroyed a beautiful tinder bundle made from a bird's nest, some magnesium shavings, and some pine pitch. I was so distraught I used a lighter that time!
Anyhow, firesteels are useful items, but if you can use a lighter, why not?

[Aidansdaddy17]

Blast Match

[Call_to_Arms]

The relevance of the firesteel over the lighter is that the firesteel will work wet and doesn't run out of fluid. Using one on a regular basis can be considered redundant survival training. Do not get obsessed about which brand to buy, I must own 8 or 10 from different companies and really have no preference, I have big hands so if I had to pick I would take the longest one I can find. As Cpurcell said your technique and how well your tinder is processed is far more important than which firesteel you choose.

[DeltaCypher0]

Thanks a lot cpurcell. I guess I'll just pick up whichever one looks good for me at my local WalMart or Dick's.

[HikingMano]

As has been said already, it's really the prep that makes the difference. Fine, fluffy, airy. Maximize your surface area. But to answer your questions, based on my own experience:

1) A nice size to start with is around that of the Light My Fire Army model. 3/8" diameter and about 2 1/2" in length. It provides a good length when you're first learning, and 3/8" will last a long time. Smaller rods are better for being compact and lighter, but for someone just starting out, at least that size and length is advantageous. When you go shorter, you tend to need better technique since you won't generate as many or as intense sparks per strike. And the sparks you do generate, probably aren't as hot or long-lasting as the sparks you get when you really dig into a big firesteel.

2) There is no "better" brand, but I've had good experience with firesteels from Light My Fire (LMF) and GoingGear (GG). Composition of the ferrocerium rods vary by manufacturer, and different firesteels will require you to modify your technique a little. For example, you need to strike an LMF firesteel a little harder to get lasting burning globs, but you can get smaller sparks by fast and light scraping. In contrast, GG firesteels require quick hard strikes (they seem softer, for lack of a better description), but you get some beastly molten globs. I also tend to the prefer the handle shape on the LMF firesteels, but the handles on the GG ones tend to be larger so they may feel better if you've got larger hands.

3) I prefer to use either the dedicated striker that comes with the steel (make sure it's the newer flat-edged strikers, if you get a LMF steel, not the older serrated/ridged strikers), or one of the awesome little strikers from GoingGear. Smaller striker = better control when striking. Neither weigh much and are easy to carry with your steel or on a keychain or something. Another popular option is a piece of hacksaw blade. Cpurcell is on the money with the spine info. To echo him, you don't have to strip the entire blade, just clean off a section of the spine with sandpaper, and make sure the edge is squared and crisp. As long as the material is sufficiently hard and has a crisp enough edge angle (acute or right, doesn't matter), it will strike. Stainless or carbon doesn't matter.

And yes, I wouldn't use the edge of my knife unless I had no other choice. I'd rather preserve my sharp edge. If you do use the edge, it's not the end of the world though. At most, you may dull a little bit of the edge closest to the handle. You'll still have plenty of sharp carving space closer to your hand and the rest of the blade farther from your hand. Anyway, I prefer to use a dedicated striker because it allows you to plant the tip of the steel into a firm spot under your bundle and really bear down on the steel with control and without the blade getting in the way. In my experience, harder strikes that throw a dense shower of sparks and/or burning globs of the ferrocerium work best when igniting tinder. Holding the knife/striker steady and pulling the firesteel against it will give you a less intense shower and usually no globs, at least not in a controlled, directed way. Just think of how much pressure you can exert on the firesteel that is braced against a solid surface vs. the pressure you can exert on a firesteel you're holding suspended in the air (AND think of which one gives you better control of where the sparks land). But ultimately, different strokes for different folks; give either method (or any of the others) a try and find out what works best for you

This is useful primer on firesteels and their usage, by BF member Evolute. It's a good little read and may provide you with additional info.


Have fun!

[DeltaCypher0]

HikingMano, your reply was on the money! Thanks so much, that was exactly the answer I was looking for.

[AussieKnifeNut]

Light my fire - best steel out, probably go the army model. As for the striker I alawys carry the striker they supply. However you can use the the spine of the knife (never the blade). Some spines throw a great spark but if your BK16 is the same as my BK2 then it wont throw a spark how ever much you try. To fix this I ground around an inch off the spine on an angle, it now throws a pretty decent shower of sparks.

[Bear Claw Chris Lappe]

I recently found a large steel by Coghland that are really inexpensive, but I've been using it testing different knives and it works just fine, throws good sparks.

The large black one in this video.

[HikingMano]

HikingMano, your reply was on the money! Thanks so much, that was exactly the answer I was looking for.

You're welcome!

I recently found a large steel by Coghland that are really inexpensive, but I've been using it testing different knives and it works just fine, throws good sparks.
[...]

I've got to try one of these next time I buy a firesteel. One can never have too many firesteels spread out in kits

[Talfuchre]

Buy both types - a Light My Fire Firesteel and a Mischmetal firesteel from somewhere like goinggear.com and see what you prefer. I can use both - but I prefer the harder LMF style.

TF

[schmittie]

Buy both types - a Light My Fire Firesteel and a Mischmetal firesteel from somewhere like goinggear.com and see what you prefer. I can use both - but I prefer the harder LMF style.

TF

I completely agree.

[HikingMano]

I'll make three. I prefer to use the LMF ones too.

Oh yeah, Talfuchre reminded me: All ferrocerium rods are mischmetal, but not all mischmetal rods are ferrocerium. Ferrocerium rods have iron and magnesium added (thus ferro). I'm not sure if the GoingGear rods are specifically mischmetal and not ferrocerium, but they seem that way with their relative "softness."

[newknife]

I like the ones from firesteel.com and goinggear.com. Both of them are great!!

[Talfuchre]

Here - this thread will help:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-group-project


TF

[HikingMano]

Here - this thread will help:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-group-project


TF

Definitions aside, as a thread for empirical categorization, right on


My understanding was that the definitions of mischmetal and ferrocerium are distinct, even if they are used interchangeably or with confusion amongst the survival community. What's presented on Wiki agrees more or less with what I've read in the past:

Mischmetal (from German: Mischmetall - "mixed metal") is an alloy of rare earth elements in various naturally occurring proportions. It is also called cerium mischmetal, rare earth mischmetal or misch metal. A typical composition includes approximately 50% cerium and 25% lanthanum, with small amounts of neodymium and praseodymium. Its most common use is in the "flint" ignition device of many lighters and torches, although an alloy of only rare-earth elements would be too soft to give good sparks. For this purpose, it is blended with iron oxide and magnesium oxide to form a harder material known as ferrocerium

Link.

I think ANYTHING that produces a spark upon scraping has iron and magnesium in it (otherwise it wouldn't be hard enough). So pretty much anything sold as a firestarting device (whether termed firesteel or mischmetal) is a ferrocerium rod. Furthermore, I've read, and I suspect it's actually the case, that newer rods being sold now which are branded as "Mischmetal" are in fact ferrocerium rods that have an higher amount of magnesium relative to the iron in the alloy. This lower ratio of iron:magnesium produces alloys which are softer and thus behave closer to a Doan block than your typical LMF type hard ferrocerium rod. That's why you can shave slivers off a GG "mischmetal" ferrocerium rod with hard and slow scraping, similar to a Doan block, and throw ignited globular sparks with hard and fast strikes. But not so with LMF and similar firesteels, which probably have a higher iron:magnesium.

Not that any of this matters in practice. Short of contacting the manufacturer to get actual tech specs, you really only know what kind of ferro rod you have by reputation or by simply trying the rod out for yourself. After a few strikes, you should know which you have and adjust your technique accordingly.

[DeltaCypher0]

So I took most of y'all's advice and picked up a Light My Fire steel. I got home and tested it out on some newspaper, and I was very unimpressed. I was able to make showers of sparks that blinded my eyes, yet the newspaper and tissue paper was very stubborn to light. I finally was able to get both to light after about 100 strikes or more. Is there something I'm missing?

[mtangent]

I have given up trying to light paper, so would be happy to her an answer re improved technique.
Cotton wool ignites very easy, & is easy to carry in a small waterproof container. That is now part of my fire kit.

You also have to make sure the tinder is completely dry. Newspaper soaks up moisture from the atmosphere.