Western Folder - is it WWII military?

[Still-a-Marine]

I recently picked up this Western folder. I am trying to determine if it is WWII U.S. Military. I am using Silvey's Pocket Knives of the United States Military for reference.

The only differences I see are that mine does not have the shield and mine has steel liners.

Bill

[ron_m80]

That sure looks alot like the one in my belt sheath right now, great knives (though mine is a Camillus). The pattern and size of the implements, the liner thickness and construction all match the WWII pattern. EDIT: your can opener isn't the same as the Camillus knife.

[Still-a-Marine]

There were three different versions of the can opener. Yours is the first (earliest). The one on the knife in question is the 3rd (latest).

Bill

[gbuskirk]

The OP's can opener is the Mirando patent (Dec 25 1945) safety can opener.

[Still-a-Marine]

The OP's can opener is the Mirando patent (Dec 25 1945) safety can opener.

Very interesting. Filed Nov. 7, 1944 and patented Dec. 25, 1945.

I've seen many of this style can openers with Pat. Pend. on them. Does this help date the knife? Since it does not have the words "Can Opener" or "Pat. Pend.' does this mean it is later than 1945? After all it is made by Western and the Imperial had the patent. I would have thought with the steel liners vs. brass that it would be a war period piece?

Bill

[gbuskirk]

I would guess, that if there's anything worse than dating a knife by its markings, it would be dating a knife by its absence of markings.

[bernard_levine]

I am not aware of Western having any military contracts during WWII.

They went after several, but were rebuffed for various reasons, mainly cost, but also having their own proposed designs turned down.

Instead what Western did was make their own designs, and their own versions of others' designs (e.g. 8" blade version of 1219C2), and sell these through the Navy and Marine Corps exchanges in the western states (distributed by Adolph Blaich, Inc., of SF CA), as well as through commercial channels.

BRL...

[trz]

Western had several WW II direct contracts. They made the wood handled life raft knives for the Army Air Corps. They made the W31 Parachutist knife for the USMC and the L71 "Seabee" for the Navy. The largest direct contract they had was for pocket knives. Quartermaster Contract 28021 QM38127 to the Army for $143,000.00, let 5/1945. The knives were about $0.56 each so we can surmise it was for 250,000 pocket knives. The war was just about over and the Army was purchasing millions of pocket knives of the all metal type, why they went to Western for a quality bone handled knife is anyones guess but they did.

As for the OP's knife I would vote for WW II era with the design and the steel liners. I don't know of any other time that steel was used for liners with this can opener design. Also during the war the government over ruled the patents and had the safety can opener used on all the pocket knives they purchased.

As Bernard pointed out Western used direct to the man sales for much of their wares but they were a large subcontractor as well. They made thousands of "Knives, Hunting, 5-inch" and "Knives, Hunting, 6-inch" for Emergency Sustenance Kits. Collectors today call them Shark Knives but in WW II they were referred to as Hunting Knives by the government. The folks who had the contract to build the kits purchased the knives that fit the description of "Hunting Knife" so the cutlery companies were subcontracting to the kit assemblers. The term was used generically, not to a direct pattern such as the M3 or the Mark2, it was a knife "type", Knife, Hunting, 5-inch.

Probably more than you wanted to know, just ramblin...

All the best
Frank Trzaska

[Still-a-Marine]

Thanks for all the helpful information.

Bill

[bernard_levine]

Thanks Frank!

That is exactly what I wanted to know.

BRL...